[Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee (Young)

[Karen Webb]

I was hoping they might go toward reinstituting some of the long-gone 
Geysers 404 walks, ie the ones that went off trail in places like the 
Cascade Group and Norris and allowed even long-time gazers to learn or 
experience something new. Probably not a function of entrance fees 
collected, but expanding latrine facilities in busy areas and/or putting 
in facilities that don't make you feel you've been consigned to an 
oubliette would also be favorite. But I realize this falls mainly into 
the pipe dreams category.
Karen Webb

On 11/20/2014 12:04 PM, Bruce Jensen wrote:
> I have a question.
>
> Would these backcountry fees be used to increase patrols in order to 
> cite people (like gazers) enjoying the backcountry geyser basins?
> Bruce Jensen,
> California, USA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 5:44 PM, Karen Webb 
> <caros at xmission.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     Thanks for the report, Jacob. I'm still mulling this over. Paul's
>     reaction to the rates as they are is that they should just post a
>     sign that says "Poor people not welcome." I don't know as much as
>     I should about other sources of income for national parks. I would
>     feel after the debacle with the government shut-down last year
>     that if the federal government can shut down and, with virtually
>     no warning, de facto shut down all national parks in-season (don't
>     even get me started on WIC), they should also be able to ante up
>     funding to help support park services. I think I've said this
>     before, but it's ironic considering that YA bookstores carry the
>     book that describes nature deprivation syndrome, escalating fees
>     for all things park-related are probably already excluding the
>     segment of the population most in need of contact with the natural
>     world. It would be nice if there were a way to exchange service
>     for the fee if the bottom line is that this money is needed to
>     improve services, or possibly to lower the fee if the visitors can
>     document low-income status.
>     Karen Webb
>
>     On 11/18/2014 10:22 PM, Jacob Young wrote:
>>     I attended one of the public comment meetings this evening in
>>     Bozeman along with Will Boekel.  I didn't necessarily have much
>>     to comment on but I wanted to see what one of these meetings was
>>     like.
>>
>>     The crowd of about 20 heard from acting superintendent Steve
>>     Iobst.  The head backcountry ranger and the head law enforcement
>>     ranger plus another Yellowstone somebody were also there.
>>
>>     Overall, there was not much opposition to these fee increases.
>>      If anything, some were saying "why not a little higher?"  Most
>>     of the discussion revolved around other revenue sources.
>>      Including tour company fees, Interagency fees, the *only* $10
>>     Senior Interagency pass, etc.  The NPS does not have the
>>     authority to change those fees.  My takeaway was that those would
>>     take acts of Congress to change.  Many NPS Parks are currently in
>>     a comment period around fee structure changes because this is the
>>     time that all the legal acts and such have allowed them to be
>>     opened to change.
>>
>>     A tour guide suggested lowering tour fees to encourage visitors
>>     to take guided services thereby lessening the impact of private
>>     autos and better "controlling" visitors.  It was a suggestion
>>     that didn't seem to have much support behind it.  I think when
>>     most people think of Yellowstone tour groups, they think big
>>     busses of foreign (Asian) visitors.  Vehicles with more than 26
>>     passengers are in their own fee category that the NPS can't touch
>>     at this time.  He did mention that Yellowstone is well-known and
>>     desirable destination in the "Pacific Rim": China, Taiwan, Japan
>>     and Korea, and they only expect an increase in the number of
>>     large 40, 50, maybe even 60 passenger busses of visitors from
>>     those regions as tour companies catering to those countries are
>>     not showing signs of decreasing.  They are continuing to look for
>>     the best ways to manage changing park demographics and visitor
>>     experiences.
>>
>>     There was general discussion of budgets, revenue sources,
>>     concessionaire contracts, and who pays for renovation projects.
>>
>>     The discussion then drifted away from fees per se onto general
>>     park visitor experience, primarily gate congestion and parking
>>     congestion (Midway Geyser Basin and Fountain Paint Pots were
>>     singled out here).  To paraphrase Iobst, "The solution in the
>>     past was to build a bigger parking lot.  That is no longer the
>>     solution.  It is here where resource protection will trump
>>     visitor experience.  There have to be other ways to deal with
>>     it."  So, naturally, the conversation went to a shuttle bus
>>     system as exist in other big NPS parks.  All the NPS reps there
>>     seemed to talk around the idea, mentioning cost and not putting
>>     trust in the idea that visitors are so willing to give up the
>>     autonomy that an automobile provides.  Iobst also mentioned the
>>     unintended consequences of shuttling in Zion: a heavy increase in
>>     trail use and bicycling that they were not prepared for...so,
>>     more study is needed.  They're definitely gun shy after the
>>     failure of a regional bus system for Yellowstone.
>>
>>     Let's see, oh yeah, entrance gates.  Because of the splitting of
>>     fees for Yellowstone and Grand Teton, the South Gate will likely
>>     get an added lane to relieve congestion.  The Gardiner Gateway
>>     project will be entering phase 1 of 3 next year--the "money is
>>     there" so it will be happening.  Some talk about the West Gate,
>>     but no changes that I heard.  Discussion of the Chamber of
>>     Commerce in West assisting in selling entrance passes (not sure
>>     if they actually do that), or otherwise acting as a place to ask
>>     questions in person instead of holding up the entrance line was
>>     overwhelmingly positive as a decrease in gate congestion.  A
>>     Gardiner business owner offered to sell entrance passes at her
>>     business and other Gardiner businesses to alleviate North Gate
>>     waiting times.  The general consensus is that it's probably too
>>     difficult to pull off legally.
>>
>>     The NPS wants to get proactive about selling entrance passes
>>     online, joining the 21st century, etc. but are slow to get there
>>     because...government.  It was clear that they WANT to hold on to
>>     the chance to stop and talk to vehicles at the gate.  For some
>>     visitors, that is the only interaction the NPS will get with them
>>     and provide even limited education on how not to die or cause
>>     destruction during their visit.  I don't see how gate congestion
>>     will ever really be eliminated if that is the case.  It's clearly
>>     frustrating for frequent visitors to have to wait in traffic, but
>>     I get the impression that the trade-off of talking to every
>>     vehicle is probably worth it given budget constraints and limited
>>     other options.
>>
>>     It was a good experience overall and the bureucracy of it all
>>     seemed much further away in an intimate setting.  I left feeling
>>     satisfied that there ARE reasonable, articulate, and thoughtful
>>     public servants working in Yellowstone.
>>
>>     Jake Young
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* JEFFREY CROSS <jeff.cross at utah.edu>
>>     <mailto:jeff.cross at utah.edu>
>>     *To:* "geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu"
>>     <mailto:geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
>>     <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu> <mailto:geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
>>     *Sent:* Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:19 PM
>>     *Subject:* [Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee
>>
>>     Note that Yellowstone is proposing to increase the entrance fee,
>>     and also to institute an overnight backcountry use fee.
>>
>>     Comments must be turned in by December 5th, 2014.
>>
>>     http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/14083.htm
>>
>>     What do we think of these ideas?
>>
>>     Jeff Cross
>>     jeff.cross at utah.edu <mailto:jeff.cross at utah.edu>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Geysers mailing list
>>     Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu <mailto:Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
>>     
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Geysers mailing list
>>     Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu  <mailto:Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
>>     
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     <http://www.avast.com/> 	
>     This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
>     Antivirus <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Geysers mailing list
>     Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu <mailto:Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
>     
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Geysers mailing list
> Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
> 



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: </geyser-list/attachments/20141121/ffbab5a7/attachment-0001.html>