[Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee

Karen Webb caros at xmission.com
Thu Dec 4 12:38:27 PST 2014


The ones I miss most are the ones at the pullouts in Hayden Valley, 
although they weren't as bear-proof as they might have been.
Karen Webb

On 12/3/2014 1:49 PM, Lynn Stephens wrote:
> Thanks Janet, but I think you meant new outhouses at Midway Geyser 
> Basin parking lot rather than Lower Geyser Basin parking lot.
>
> And, when the garbage can was removed at Great Fountain, garbage cans 
> also disappeared from all other places--Black Sand, Biscuit, Steel 
> Bridge, Flood pull-out, Hot Lake, etc., etc., etc., all over the 
> park.  The rationale I was given for taking out the garbage cans was 
> cost, potential injury to maintenance persons trying to empty the 
> garbage cans, and use of dumpsters wherever there were outhouses would 
> handle the garbage that otherwise would have gone into the cans.
>
> Lynn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 13:18:00 -0500
> From: pinkconemtgo at gmail.com
> To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
> Subject: Re: [Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee
>
> During the comment period, before the parking lot for Fountain Paint 
> Pots was actually approved, the Johns family read the EIS (I think it 
> was called that then.)  We went and counted parking lot spaces.  It 
> was designed to cut  the spaces by a third.  We went to the Visitor 
> Center and explained it to a number of the naturalists at the time.  
> They had all thought it would be a bigger lot! Everyone complained.  
> We gave out forms to every geyser gazer that appeared before the 
> comment period ended.  Not only was the lot shortened but the number 
> of outhouses was cut by a third also.  That was to accommodate new 
> outhouses at the Lower Geyser Basin parking lot. Adding those 
> outhouses required additional time to stop to clean them so it was 
> determined that Fountain needed a third less to keep from hiring more 
> cleaners.  That is also why the garbage can at Great Fountain was 
> removed.  Personnel hiring needed to decline. As always in 
> Yellowstone, the rates go up and the services to the public go down.   
> I don't think a rate increase will change that trend.  Its all well 
> and good to fight with fish....but humans need help in the park too.  
> The only option to this is to limit the number of visitors per day.  I 
> suggest that eliminating all tour groups (particularly foreign groups) 
> would be a fine start.
>
>
> Now this very grumpy ex-volunteer will shut up.
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:50 AM, David Prast <davidjprast at gmail.com 
> <mailto:davidjprast at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Jim,
>
>     You stated, "and then they get to keep 80 million". Did you mean
>     _up to_ 80 million? Are you stating collection of revenue is
>     capped at 80 million? Later in your posting you referred to a 20
>     million dollar split between Yellowstone and Grand Tetons. What is
>     the source of that 20 million dollar figure? I'm a little confused.
>
>     It seems the funding stream is somewhat complicated based on a
>     number of variables. How have you come to learn about the funding
>     mechanism? Do you know where I could find the actual formula?
>
>     David Prast
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:38 AM, <seeyellowstone at aol.com
>     <mailto:seeyellowstone at aol.com>> wrote:
>
>         I'm wondering why no one is complaining about winter use in
>         Yellowstone.  This has truly become for the elite.  It's not
>         possible for a family of 4 to go to Old Faithful in the winter
>         under $400 for the day.  By the way the park does not get to
>         keep 80% of the revenue until they paid Congress the amount
>         the park brought in back in 1996, the park has to pay that
>         first, then they get to keep 80 million.  For example, our of
>         the 3.5 million visitors that came in last year, let's say
>         there were 1 million vehicles (it seemed like it some days),
>         at $25 per car load, that would be $25 million.  The park even
>         advertises that they get to split 2.5 million last year though
>         this program (no where near 20 million), if Congress would
>         keep their hands out of the pot in the first place,
>         Yellowstone and Grand Teton would be splitting over 20
>         million, and all national parks would be self sustaining,
>         likely without a fee increase.
>         Jim Holstein
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Karen Webb <caros at xmission.com <mailto:caros at xmission.com>>
>         To: Geyser Observation Reports <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
>         <mailto:geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>>
>         Sent: Tue, Nov 25, 2014 5:50 pm
>         Subject: Re: [Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee
>
>         Can I just point out that, in the case of FPP, the parking lot
>         used to extend to the north and have the decent, airier,
>         I-have-not-just-been-dropped-into-an-oubliette sort of
>         latrine. If an environmental impact statement was the cause of
>         either the shrinkage of the parking lot or the placement of
>         these blots on the name of humanity, I was not aware of it
>         (although that can be said of other things).
>         Karen Webb
>
>         On 11/24/2014 1:35 AM, michellechristine08 at gmail.com
>         <mailto:michellechristine08 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>             There is not an exact plan yet for where the extra revenue
>             will go, but they hope to use a portion of it for gill
>             netting in Yellowstone Lake as well as setting some aside
>             for a rehabilitation fund.
>
>             Also, just a note on the parking areas at FPP and Midway.
>             The reason that those parking
>             lots are not expanded has nothing to do with funding.
>             Therefore, you should not expect that to be in the plans
>             for extra revenue. Expanding parking areas in protected
>             areas like our national parks is pretty complicated,
>             involving environmental impact statements and other plans
>             that take years to complete. In Yellowstone, you also have
>             to take into account the thermal areas that lie close to
>             those parking lots. If those parking area were being built
>             today, they would never be where they are. They are
>             already too close to thermal areas, so expanding them is
>             out of the question. It stinks, but it is true.
>
>             As far as the entrance fee increase goes, the fact is that
>             our national parks need more money. Thankfully,
>             Yellowstone was not impacted too much by the sequester a
>             couple years back (because it is such a popular and large
>             park) but visitor centers all over the nation were closed
>             and important jobs cut. Unless parks get more money,
>             actions like that will become much more common. As was
>             stated earlier, short of changes in federal government
>             funding, there really aren't a lot of other ways to get
>             that extra money. They have to do what they have to do.
>
>             For those that are interested, there are days that the
>             national parks allow free entrance. For those that truly
>             cannot afford the entrance fee, I am sure they can plan
>             their trips to coincide with those days, especially if
>             they live within short driving distance. The NPS
>             advertises those days on their website.
>
>             Michelle Eide
>
>             On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:38 PM, David Prast
>             <davidjprast at gmail.com <mailto:davidjprast at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Having reviewed the minutes if the meeting that were
>                 provided, I noticed there was no mention of the the
>                 specific use of the additional revenue. It would seem
>                 there is no interest in a shuttle system (thank
>                 goodness) and the no interest in expanded parking at
>                 Fountain Paint Pots even though the number of
>                 automobile parking spaces was reduced during the last
>                 parking lot project.  So....what is the "plan" for the
>                 additional revenue? Is there a specific designated
>                 project for the additional revenue?
>
>                 Just wondering,
>
>                 David Prast
>
>                 On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:05 PM,
>                 <mmjustus at mmjustus.com <mailto:mmjustus at mmjustus.com>>
>                 wrote:
>
>                     I disagree wholeheartedly with this, especially
>                     for people who live within a reasonably short
>                     drive (say within a tank of gas) and make trips to
>                     the park on a shoestring. Or who have to save
>                     pennies to make trips to the national parks. 
>                     Every dollar counts.  This is how I visit national
>                     parks, and I will tell you that yes, doubling the
>                     entrance fee would make a huge difference to
>                     people like me.  And there are a lot more of us
>                     than those making this argument seem to think
>                     there are.
>                     Meg Justus
>                     I agree with Ben.  The cost is a real
>                     bargain---Disneyland and Disney World charge $100
>                     per day. It seems to me highly unlikely that the
>                     small rise in entrance fee would prevent any but
>                     the most casual potential visitor from coming,
>                     considering the cost of travel and other expenses.
>                     Ralph Taylor
>
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