[Geysers] EXTERNAL: Online Logs (Young)

[Freund, Udo]

Jake,

You and Alan are to be commended for all of your hard work in developing and launching some great tools.  We realize they're a work in progress and refinement will take some time and lots of ideas.  Let's all contribute and see how it shakes out.

I agree with Scott's comments regarding liars.  They've always been around and always will be.  Nothing will stop a truly determined person.  In trying to stop them you risk frustrating good folks too.  This happened with the OFVC logbooks in the 90's.  Access was restricted and many gazers refused to report observations.

People do make mistakes.  Questionable reports might first be kicked back (R U sure?) to allow a reporter to correct an error.  Next the report should be flagged.  The flag might say "Pending confirmation" or some such thing.  Confirmation should be done preferably by a reliable source, certainly not by the original reporter.

Sources making an uncorrected honest error should not be instantly restricted.  Perhaps assign a strike for each bad entry.  3 strikes and you're out.  Of course, someone could resurface under another guise.  Perhaps their IP address or other background identifier could be included in their grade.  I suggest displaying the reporter's grade in the detailed report, perhaps only for certain "high-level" users to see.

Thanks,
Udo Freund

From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Jacob Young
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:29 PM
To: 'Geyser Reports'
Subject: EXTERNAL: [Geysers] Online Logs (Young)

As the developer of GeyserTimes.org, one of the online logs for geyser data, I would like to enter a few points for the discussion about the online logs that was started by an erroneous report of Giant Geyser erupting.

Overview

Both Alan Glennon (geysers.net and associated Geyser Notebook Android App) and I have developed similar systems for collecting and reporting geyser information.  We've been treating this first season (2011) as beta-testing of the concept of storing geyser data in this way.  Neither of us have formally announced the existence of these sites, but they have quickly grown to be used by not just gazers, but casual visitors as well.  So far, it has been going quite well and we continue to be very excited by the possibilities going forward.

For now, there are two separate sites with slightly different focuses, but we are sharing reports openly with each other.  GeyserTimes.org requires entrants to have a user account; geysers.net/Android App does not.  Both sites receive erroneous reports.  The current methods in place for controlling user reports is through "flagging" of erroneous reports by other users.

Erroneous Entries

Over 1,000 people have downloaded Alan's Geyser Notebook App this season.  We often get anonymous reports of Anemone (first geyser on the list) and White Dome (last geyser on the list) and also Old Faithful.  Anemone reports are difficult to dismiss as false.  A White Dome report can likely be dismissed if it was entered within minutes of the eruption time (there's no internet/cell service at the Lower Geyser Basin).  Old Faithful is watched very faithfully by webcam watchers and they do a fine job of keeping (daytime) Old Faithful data clean.

Now, the issue of the Giant entry.  It was entered by "guest" (ie anonymous) at 3am for a 0250 eruption.  While initially very exciting, it's not very probable that Giant did erupt and should be met with much skepticism because 1) Giant hasn't erupted for awhile. 2) It's an anonymous report with no comments.  3) Who was out in the basin at 3 in the morning in mid-October?

As it happened, a few gazers took a look at Giant the next day and saw (based on the in-place signs) that it had not erupted and the report was flagged away.

I don't know what the best way is to handle these situations and I look to the gazer community to help decide.  This is exactly the time to address these types of issues while the sites are still in their infancy.  You might say to disallow anonymous reports, but what if Giant really had erupted and someone didn't want to go through the trouble of creating a login?  Perhaps there should be a secondary hoop to jump through before being allowed to enter such a major geyser eruption.

Purpose of Online Logs

There seems to be three primary purposes of the online log:
1) As a tool to help real-time geyser gazing (if you have access to a smart-phone or internet at Old Faithful)
2) As a tool to help NEAR-time geyser gazing (i.e. people driving in from West Yellowstone)
3) Long-term data storage/retrieval system

Our Giant entry issue was pretty easy to clean up to address purpose #3, but probably caused some undue excitement for people in case #1.

Conclusion

We're working to create an universal, robust system to store geyser data.  We need the gazer community's input to do this in the best way possible.  The online log is functional and gazer response has been positive and encouraging, but it still has a long ways to go.  I want there to be a discussion about this, but also don't want to hijack the listserv so feel free to send your comments to my personal email jakefrisbee at yahoo.com if you'd like.

Happy Gazing,
Jake



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