[Geysers] Re: Vista Clearing

[PopcornBabe99]

I agree with Scott Bryan. As well as others who've said things about the sometimes-poor choices by the NPS. I first worked at Old Faithful, at the Inn, as a room attendant, in 1990 and in 1991. Back then, you could get a wonderful view of Old Faithful--and, in some cases, of Beehive-- from at least a few of the rooms. How do I know? I remember very vividly seeing an Old Faithful-Beehive dual while I was cleaning a room, and on many other occasions I was able to see Old Faithful erupt.Too bad I did not have a camera with me then! It was a "benefit" to being a room attendant back then for me, and I recall mentioning that to friends at the time. Taking down some trees is not some kind of "sacrilege" and, while I like seeing the park preserved in many ways, I also think our (as humans) innate urge to control things is getting out of hand. What next... no moving the bison dung, because it's "natural?" Views from the rooms, and of places like Tower Falls, add
 to the natural enjoyment of the Park by visitors. People save what they love.... I hate seeing reasonable access being eroded by what I see (my own opinion) as increasingly-restrictive measures....out of fear of lawsuits or political correctness or whatever. Cmon, it's a few trees.
And as to the light reduction at Old Faithful? As a former employee who had to walk home many nights after work through that seriously-thick darkness, even with my headlamp, it was SCARY. A couple of times I ended up closer than I would have liked to wildlife. It's fortunate nothing more serious has happened that I know of...Sorry but a wee bit more light (directed downward or whatever it needs to be) would keep views better for safety and still not "ruin" those passionate parking-lot starlight viewers' view... gimme a break! Besides, I can't be the only person out there with poor night vision.....
Anyway, I agree with the ideas that support more common-sense solutions. 

--- On Wed, 3/4/09, geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu <geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu> wrote:


From: geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu <geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu>
Subject: Geysers Digest, Vol 1363, Issue 1
To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:00 PM


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Today's Topics:

   1. Vista clearing (Ruth & Leslie Quinn)
   2. Re: vista clearing (TSBryan at aol.com)
   3. Re: Correlation of Data  (TSBryan at aol.com)
   4. Re: Cutting down trees and bushes - ha ha (Goh83642 at wmconnect.com)
   5. knocking down a couple of trees (Seeyellowstone at aol.com)
   6. More Vista Clearing (Mark Knowlden)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:56:32 -0700
From: "Ruth & Leslie Quinn" <ruthleslie.ynp at gmail.com>
Subject: [Geysers] Vista clearing
To: "Geysers" <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
Message-ID: <CB9C0AF53C904F31BA48A16763ED9471 at YOUR0D4968B766>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

All,
    I hope it is possible to get some Vista Clearing done in front of the Inn. While we're at it, the trees that grow between the East Wing and Old Faithful Geyser are just as new, and ruin the geyser view of the rooms there. They should go as well.
    Around the Park, Tower Falls needs Vista Clearing to maintain the view of the falls from the platform (especially since the trail to view the falls from the bottom is closed,  probably permanently). When the Visitor Center and main Restaurant were built at Grant Village, they were built back from the lake with the intention of keeping their vistas clear. When it was finally noticed that the vistas were almost closed, the NPS did something about it -- they cut the trees blocking the view from the VC. Last I knew, the restaurant has still lost its view (if I'm wrong on this and they did that one finally, I apologize).
    But anyway, yes! We have built so many things with the intention of them having a view, and the lodgepole pine is anything but threatened (even in Colorado, where a good hot fire or two will wipe out pine bark beetle habitat, just like it did in Yellowstone in 1988!). It would be lovely to restore a few views!
    Just one of the rabble,
Leslie Quinn
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:12:35 EST
From: TSBryan at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Geysers] vista clearing
To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
Message-ID: <cae.422be95f.36ddec13 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Two responses to Whittlesey's latest embedded below:

In a message dated 3/2/2009 6:42:23 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov writes:

Yellowstone and other national parks are---according to the Leopold  
Report---not supposed to be
zoos, ranches, or harvest-gardens. They are not  supposed to be commercial.

this, of course, being why people not only have to pay to get into the  park, 
but then pay increasingly exorbitant fees to stay at in-park lodgings, buy  
in-park hamburgers, and such.

this  liabilitycomes from city parks in England (English Common Law), from 
which we  get
much of our own American common law. It means that land owners  and
occupiers have a well established duty not only to remove hazardous  trees
in public campgrounds but also to actually INSPECT for such trees  and
hazards. That's why the trees got removed at Bridge  Bay.

I could point out a few leaning trees in the lower Old Faithful Inn parking  
lot. Might not one of those fall? Might is not be removed to eliminate any  
possible liability? I pray that one lands on my car this summer. Oh, yeah.

C'mon people. I speak not just from experience in Yellowstone. In numerous  
ways, the NPS has gotten ridiculous. Indeed, if this parking lot matter was  
studied in the Death Valley fashion, it would probably be closed for use pending 
several years of study. Not a joke -- sorry.

Scott Bryan

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:15:20 EST
From: TSBryan at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Geysers] Correlation of Data 
To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
Message-ID: <c80.47cdbab9.36ddecb8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Giantess and nothing else.

Scott


In a message dated 3/2/2009 6:42:22 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
Goh83642 at wmconnect.com writes:

List and Geyser Experts,  

I watch the Earthquake data from U of U web page for  Yellowstone Park quite 
often.  I was wondering if there is correlation of  the data between the UUSS 
Webicorder (Seismogram) Displays on the Old  Faithful recordings and geysers 
in the near proximity?  If there is,  could some of you experts elaborate on 
which traces correspond to which  geysers? 
The link to Old Faithful seismogram is: 
http://www.seis.utah.edu/helicorder/yft_webi_1d.htm  



Thanks in advance, 

Gary Henderson  
Meridian,  Idaho

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:02:49 EST
From: Goh83642 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: [Geysers] Cutting down trees and bushes - ha ha
To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
Message-ID: <c3f.43dd3b04.36de13f9 at wmconnect.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Udo,

   While you're restoring it to "No Trees", then remember to have them put 
the swiming pool building back out into the flat to the left side of the view.

   Gary
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:48:14 EST
From: Seeyellowstone at aol.com
Subject: [Geysers] knocking down a couple of trees
To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
Message-ID: <c3e.437f2cb8.36de8f1e at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I thought I would weigh in a little bit.  How is knocking down a  couple of 
trees in a parking lot more destructive than, say, knocking over the  cliff at 
the Boiling River (was there an eis on this one?), cutting into Orange  Spring 
Mound or Pink Cone? 

We are also getting very close to having no way to view Tower Falls any  
more, as the upper viewpoint is almost grown over and the lower viewpoint  doesn't 
exist anymore.  I guess if the view is gone, it wouldn't hurt to  remove the 
Ham Store, which would improve the ability to park on the  pavement. 

How about the boardwalk by Castle Geyser affecting the small geyser on  the 
corner (I am embarrassed that I can't think of the name at 5 in the  morning)? 

How about that nice looking gravel pit that greets all of the visitors at  
the top of Sylvan Pass, doesn't that look great? Or the big pile of dirt  and 
rock in the site that used to be the Gibbon Falls Picnic area?  Has  anyone 
checked out the bison capture facility in the Stephens Creek District,  it's what 
about 5 to 10 acres, who knows, were not allowed back there, but you  can see 
it from highway 89. 

I will give the park credit for removing the huge solar panels along 191,  
which seldom worked, after all, I like not being blinded by what some  guests 
have described as looking like "space shuttle debris". This did not  look 
"Natural" at all.  Trees, willows and other plants were removed for  this unsightly 
project.  About 4 years ago the State has started moving  down sage brush in 
the Gallatin District with a rotary during the winter to make  a wind row, 
instead of pushing it back with a front end loader, as done in the  past, which 
did not mow down the sage. 

The Park has also had a policy to follow historical use,  but haven't we seen 
several roads close in the past 20 years including  Bunsen Peak Drive, the 
Natural Bridge Drive and 1/2 of the Freight  Road (Fountain Flat Drive)?  What's 
wrong with maintaining the historical  view of the Inn as Reamer intended?

We are talking about a couple of trees in a parking lot. My point is the  
Park has done way more destructive things than cutting a couple of trees,  
besides the Lodgepole has proven resilient, and will come back in road beds and  
ditches and even after fire! We are not talking about an endangered species  here.

Back to Orange Spring Mound, I guess by cutting into the hillside more to  
get the road by the spring would have involved cutting down a couple of trees,  
it must be better to cut into the travertine deposits. I will admit I am  glad 
Upper Terrace Drive remains open, as it is great for visitors  that are not 
so ambulatory.  

Last winter the Park Service used a rotary along the road by the top of  
Canary, blowing sticks, road gravel, litter and other debris into Canary Spring,  
it looked like hell for about a month until the spring coated over the  
evidence.

Just a couple of more thoughts.

I'm sorry I haven't had many geyser reports lately, I seem to have used up  
my geyser luck during the beginning of the winter.

Jim
YTG
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:45:39 -0700
From: "Mark Knowlden" <Geyserguy at comcast.net>
Subject: [Geysers] More Vista Clearing
To: <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
Message-ID: <125F9C3DA249479D95F66B6F13D89CD6 at DIVFINANCE.STATE.UT>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello group,
  While we are on the discussion of clearing the trees around the Old Faithful Inn, how about adding this?  Should the Park Service clear the trees by the Steamboat Geyser viewpoint?  Many years ago they were very short or not even there.  Now it seems they have this big boardwalk viewpoint built, with so many trees in front of it, there are only one or two good vantage points left.  During the peak season, people have to take turns to get to the vantage points.  Personally, I think they should clear the trees around the viewpoint (and others if needed) and the Inn to enhance the visitors experience.  I know they want to keep the experience as natural as possible, but I think a compromise is in order.  But then, I'm just a park visitor.

Good gazing to everyone,

Mark Wayne Knowlden
Geyserguy at comcast.net
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