<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr"><span>Karen et al,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5753">This was discussed. &nbsp;The response from Iobst was along the lines of, yes, it does hurt the poor, but for all but a few of Yellowstone visitors who live in gateway communities, the entrance fee increase as a portion of the overall trip cost is minimal.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr">The commenter agreed, but also lamented the cost of park lodging going up too.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr">Someone did ask this question as a hypothetical: How much would the entrance fee have to be to cover YNP Federal revenues in the case of a total gov't shutdown? &nbsp;Iobst was pretty quick with the math: about $200 per vehicle--that's roughly the number I came up with too looking at their park revenue handout. &nbsp;It was a pie chart showing the $70 million of income Yellowstone receives annually. &nbsp;About 75% ($52.3 million) of that is Federal taxpayer money. &nbsp;10% of the total comes from entrance fees ($6.7M in 2014), which is the only piece of the pie that they have some control over. &nbsp;That's why they're proposing the increase that is expected to generate an additional $3 million. &nbsp;He said they do not expect a decrease in visitation because of the entrance fee increase. &nbsp;The $70 million figure EXCLUDES Federal Highway construction and Concessioner construction, which are not small amounts.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5748" dir="ltr">FYI, there's still time to mail in your comments, postmarked by Dec. 5.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_6388"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_6387"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jake</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div>  <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5751"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5750"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5749"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5756">  <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5752"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Karen Webb &lt;caros@xmission.com&gt;<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Geyser Observation Reports &lt;geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu&gt; <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 19, 2014 4:15 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee (Young)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_5814"><br><div id="yiv2262632202"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_6035">
    <font size="-1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_6034"><font face="Comic Sans MS" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416447840285_6033">Thanks for the report,
        Jacob. I'm still mulling this over. Paul's reaction to the rates
        as they are is that they should just post a sign that says "Poor
        people not welcome." I don't know as much as I should about
        other sources of income for national parks. I would feel after
        the debacle with the government shut-down last year that if the
        federal government can shut down and, with virtually no warning,
        de facto shut down all national parks in-season (don't even get
        me started on WIC), they should also be able to ante up funding
        to help support park services. I think I've said this before,
        but it's ironic considering that YA bookstores carry the book
        that describes nature deprivation syndrome, escalating fees for
        all things park-related are probably already excluding the
        segment of the population most in need of contact with the
        natural world.</font></font> It would be nice if there were a
    way to exchange service for the fee if the bottom line is that this
    money is needed to improve services, or possibly to lower the fee if
    the visitors can document low-income status.<br clear="none">
    Karen Webb<br clear="none">
    <br clear="none">
    <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv2262632202yqt8327361710" id="yiv2262632202yqt94816"><div class="yiv2262632202moz-cite-prefix">On 11/18/2014 10:22 PM, Jacob Young
      wrote:<br clear="none">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;">
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56585">I attended one of the
            public comment meetings this evening in Bozeman along with
            Will Boekel. &nbsp;I didn't necessarily have much to comment on
            but I wanted to see what one of these meetings was like.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56588">The crowd of about 20
            heard from acting superintendent Steve Iobst. &nbsp;The head
            backcountry ranger and the head law enforcement ranger plus
            another Yellowstone somebody were also there.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56617">Overall, there was not
            much opposition to these fee increases. &nbsp;If anything, some
            were saying "why not a little higher?" &nbsp;Most of the
            discussion revolved around other revenue sources. &nbsp;Including
            tour company fees, Interagency fees, the *only* $10 Senior
            Interagency pass, etc. &nbsp;The NPS does not have the authority
            to change those fees. &nbsp;My takeaway was that those would take
            acts of Congress to change. &nbsp;Many NPS Parks are currently in
            a comment period around fee structure changes because this
            is the time that all the legal acts and such have allowed
            them to be opened to change.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56635">A tour guide suggested
            lowering tour fees to encourage visitors to take guided
            services thereby lessening the impact of private autos and
            better "controlling" visitors. &nbsp;It was a suggestion that
            didn't seem to have much support behind it. &nbsp;I think when
            most people think of Yellowstone tour groups, they think big
            busses of foreign (Asian) visitors. &nbsp;Vehicles with more than
            26 passengers are in their own fee category that the NPS
            can't touch at this time. &nbsp;He did mention that Yellowstone
            is well-known and desirable destination in the "Pacific
            Rim": China, Taiwan, Japan and Korea, and they only expect
            an increase in the number of large 40, 50, maybe even 60
            passenger busses of visitors from those regions as tour
            companies catering to those countries are not showing signs
            of decreasing. &nbsp;They are continuing to look for the best
            ways to manage changing park demographics and visitor
            experiences.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56623">There was general
            discussion of budgets, revenue sources, concessionaire
            contracts, and who pays for renovation projects.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56620">The discussion then
            drifted away from fees per se onto general park visitor
            experience, primarily gate congestion and parking congestion
            (Midway Geyser Basin and Fountain Paint Pots were singled
            out here). &nbsp;To paraphrase Iobst, "The solution in the past
            was to build a bigger parking lot. &nbsp;That is no longer the
            solution. &nbsp;It is here where resource protection will trump
            visitor experience. &nbsp;There have to be other ways to deal
            with it." &nbsp;So, naturally, the conversation went to a shuttle
            bus system as exist in other big NPS parks. &nbsp;All the NPS
            reps there seemed to talk around the idea, mentioning cost
            and not putting trust in the idea that visitors are so
            willing to give up the autonomy that an automobile provides.
            &nbsp;Iobst also mentioned the unintended consequences of
            shuttling in Zion: a heavy increase in trail use and
            bicycling that they were not prepared for...so, more study
            is needed. &nbsp;They're definitely gun shy after the failure of
            a regional bus system for Yellowstone.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56657">Let's see, oh yeah,
            entrance gates. &nbsp;Because of the splitting of fees for
            Yellowstone and Grand Teton, the South Gate will likely get
            an added lane to relieve congestion. &nbsp;The Gardiner Gateway
            project will be entering phase 1 of 3 next year--the "money
            is there" so it will be happening. &nbsp;Some talk about the West
            Gate, but no changes that I heard. &nbsp;Discussion of the
            Chamber of Commerce in West assisting in selling entrance
            passes (not sure if they actually do that), or otherwise
            acting as a place to ask questions in person instead of
            holding up the entrance line was overwhelmingly positive as
            a decrease in gate congestion. &nbsp;A Gardiner business owner
            offered to sell entrance passes at her business and other
            Gardiner businesses to alleviate North Gate waiting times.
            &nbsp;The general consensus is that it's probably too difficult
            to pull off legally.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56668">The NPS wants to get
            proactive about selling entrance passes online, joining the
            21st century, etc. but are slow to get there
            because...government. &nbsp;It was clear that they WANT to hold
            on to the chance to stop and talk to vehicles at the gate.
            &nbsp;For some visitors, that is the only interaction the NPS
            will get with them and provide even limited education on how
            not to die or cause destruction during their visit. &nbsp;I don't
            see how gate congestion will ever really be eliminated if
            that is the case. &nbsp;It's clearly frustrating for frequent
            visitors to have to wait in traffic, but I get the
            impression that the trade-off of talking to every vehicle is
            probably worth it given budget constraints and limited other
            options.</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56719">It was a good
            experience overall and the bureucracy&nbsp;of it all seemed much
            further away in an intimate setting. &nbsp;I left feeling
            satisfied that there ARE reasonable, articulate, and
            thoughtful public servants working in Yellowstone. &nbsp;</span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span><br clear="none">
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56562"><span id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56691">Jake Young</span></div>
        <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56638"><br clear="none">
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        <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56689"><br clear="none">
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        <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56584" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;">
          <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56583" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
            <div dir="ltr" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56582">
              <hr id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56581" size="1"> <font id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56612" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
                JEFFREY CROSS <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jeff.cross@utah.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:jeff.cross@utah.edu">&lt;jeff.cross@utah.edu&gt;</a><br clear="none">
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
                <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu">"geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu"</a>
                <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu">&lt;geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu&gt;</a> <br clear="none">
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:19 PM<br clear="none">
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                [Geysers] Entrance and Backcountry Fee<br clear="none">
              </font> </div>
            <div class="yiv2262632202y_msg_container" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56613"><br clear="none">
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                <style type="text/css">#yiv2262632202  P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>
                <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56615">
                  <div id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56614" style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt;">Note that
                    Yellowstone is proposing to increase the entrance
                    fee, and also to institute an overnight backcountry
                    use fee.<br clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    Comments must be turned in by December 5th, 2014.<br clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv2262632202yui_3_16_0_1_1415904305191_56755" target="_blank" href="http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/14083.htm">http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/14083.htm</a><br clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    What do we think of these ideas?<br clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    Jeff Cross<br clear="none">
                    <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:jeff.cross@utah.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:jeff.cross@utah.edu">jeff.cross@utah.edu</a><br clear="none">
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              _______________________________________________<br clear="none">
              Geysers mailing list<br clear="none">
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              <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://lists.wallawalla.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers">https://lists.wallawalla.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers</a><br clear="none">
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      <pre>_______________________________________________
Geysers mailing list
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:Geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu">Geysers@lists.wallawalla.edu</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2262632202moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://lists.wallawalla.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers">https://lists.wallawalla.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers</a></pre>
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