[Geysers] GeyserTimes entries

[M3]

I would throw out there that both webcam data and in-basin observational data can serve to check and balance each other.  No bias needed or desired- simply consider them as both valid sources. Imperfect, yes. But then nothing IS perfect. Just my ha'penny's worth.
Kate Parry popcornbabe99 at yahoo.com

> On May 22, 2016, at 1:00 PM, <geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu> <geysers-request at lists.wallawalla.edu> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Geyser time entries (David Monteith)
>   2. Re: Geyser time entries (Stephen Eide)
>   3. Re: Geyser time entries (Mara Reed)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 15:52:17 -0700
> From: David Monteith <dmonteit at comcast.net>
> To: Geyser Reports <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
> Subject: [Geysers] Geyser time entries
> Message-ID: <1463871137.19411.23.camel at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Concerning geyser eruption times entered into Geysertimes.org, it was
> recently stated:
> 
>> Entries from the basin are assumed to be more accurate and will
>> override webcam data, the latter being still better than nothing.
> 
> Because of this bias, webcam times that record an earlier start time
> are overridden by in-basin times that have a later start times
> (obviously someone in the basin wasn't looking the correct direction
> when the geyser started). ?If the concern is that the webcam stream may
> introduce a delay, then using a later start time doesn't make sense.
> Secondly, if a recording of the webcam stream is utilized, the recorded
> video can be reviewed and accuracy determined. Even in-basin observers
> have asked that something be reviewed on the webcam capture in order to
> verify something they saw. Lastly, the timestamp on the recordings
> posted on the GOSA page?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaqzeYjrgAHI-Q
> 0wDN4-CuQ?are accurate to within 5 seconds. ?
> 
> Observational mistakes are made both on the webcam and in the basin. To
> instigate an automatic bias seems unreasonable.?
> 
> One last word, it is unfortunate to characterize someone's contribution
> as "the latter being still better than nothing". We should always
> encourage participation and acknowledge the effort the person took to
> record the observation.?
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:19:11 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Stephen Eide <stepheneide at cableone.net>
> To: Geyser Observation Reports <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser time entries
> Message-ID:
>    <1313144698.20263972.1463876351170.JavaMail.zimbra at cableone.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hello All,
> I find I agree with David.  I know of several times I have been waiting for Beehive and called Castle NS only to find the Web Cam caught it two or three minutes before I did, so it was not NS.  I was just looking in the wrong direction.  I think the question of the "most accurate" time will be with us for some time after this.  But this is an issue I think we would benefit from looking at.  
> Stephen Eide
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Monteith" <dmonteit at comcast.net>
> To: "Geyser Reports" <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 4:52:17 PM
> Subject: [Geysers] Geyser time entries
> 
> Concerning geyser eruption times entered into Geysertimes.org, it was
> recently stated:
> 
>> Entries from the basin are assumed to be more accurate and will
>> override webcam data, the latter being still better than nothing.
> 
> Because of this bias, webcam times that record an earlier start time
> are overridden by in-basin times that have a later start times
> (obviously someone in the basin wasn't looking the correct direction
> when the geyser started). ?If the concern is that the webcam stream may
> introduce a delay, then using a later start time doesn't make sense.
> Secondly, if a recording of the webcam stream is utilized, the recorded
> video can be reviewed and accuracy determined. Even in-basin observers
> have asked that something be reviewed on the webcam capture in order to
> verify something they saw. Lastly, the timestamp on the recordings
> posted on the GOSA page?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaqzeYjrgAHI-Q
> 0wDN4-CuQ?are accurate to within 5 seconds. ?
> 
> Observational mistakes are made both on the webcam and in the basin. To
> instigate an automatic bias seems unreasonable.?
> 
> One last word, it is unfortunate to characterize someone's contribution
> as "the latter being still better than nothing". We should always
> encourage participation and acknowledge the effort the person took to
> record the observation.?
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Geysers mailing list
> Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 23:38:41 -0500
> From: Mara Reed <mara.reed at me.com>
> To: Geyser Observation Reports <geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser time entries
> Message-ID: <A69BAF95-7FE9-4109-BB83-F4678539922B at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Because of the way GT works, there must be a hierarchy in deciding which entry is recorded as primary and which as secondary. As far as I know, an in-basin observation takes priority because eyes in the basin are most often more reliable than eyes through the webcam, simply because the observation is  (again, generally) direct rather than indirect. I can?t speak for the GT team but know that they have been discussing looking at the current hierarchy and evaluating what can be done to improve it.
> 
> The webcam is invaluable in confirming eruptions, and I think everyone appreciates vigilant webcam watchers as they fill in the gaps at night, during the winter, when gazers are elsewhere, and when in-basin observers make the wrong call.
> 
> At the end of the day, I would like to see GT as a tool for gazers in their day to day plans as well as a quality-checked database for interested researchers. If there are multiple entries, a good researcher should make note. That being said, if you have an observation (regardless of where it was made) and think it is more accurate or has more information than the primary entry, the best thing you can do is to talk to the person who entered the primary and work it out. Every GT account is associated with an e-mail, and our community is fairly networked. Talk to your fellow gazers. We can maintain a reasonably accurate database this way.
> 
> Finally, I will be blunt - if you are here for the ?status" of having the primary entry, that is not what we are about. Gazing is a collaborative effort that takes many forms and relies on active participation and discussion from many. Let?s start acting like it.
> 
> Mara
> 
> 
>> On May 21, 2016, at 5:52 PM, David Monteith <dmonteit at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Concerning geyser eruption times entered into Geysertimes.org, it was
>> recently stated:
>> 
>>> Entries from the basin are assumed to be more accurate and will
>>> override webcam data, the latter being still better than nothing.
>> 
>> Because of this bias, webcam times that record an earlier start time
>> are overridden by in-basin times that have a later start times
>> (obviously someone in the basin wasn't looking the correct direction
>> when the geyser started).  If the concern is that the webcam stream may
>> introduce a delay, then using a later start time doesn't make sense.
>> Secondly, if a recording of the webcam stream is utilized, the recorded
>> video can be reviewed and accuracy determined. Even in-basin observers
>> have asked that something be reviewed on the webcam capture in order to
>> verify something they saw. Lastly, the timestamp on the recordings
>> posted on the GOSA page https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaqzeYjrgAHI-Q
>> 0wDN4-CuQ are accurate to within 5 seconds.  
>> 
>> Observational mistakes are made both on the webcam and in the basin. To
>> instigate an automatic bias seems unreasonable. 
>> 
>> One last word, it is unfortunate to characterize someone's contribution
>> as "the latter being still better than nothing". We should always
>> encourage participation and acknowledge the effort the person took to
>> record the observation. 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Geysers mailing list
>> Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
>> 
> 
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