From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 16:49:50 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 19:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Monday 7-2-12 Message-ID: Beehive: 0430 (indicator 0414) Grand: 0554, 1212 G1Q Plume: 0825, 0921, ...,1255, 1349 Lion: 0136, 0233, 0321, --- 1133 initial, 1247, 1351 Little Cub: ie at 0813, 1240, 1314, 1347 Depression: 0755, 1120 Castle: 1213 minor West Triplet: 0512 Rift: 0549 Oblong: 0949 Riverside: 0508ns, 1118 Daisy: 0616, 0856, 1125ie, 1357 Grotto: 1232 Grotto Fountain: 1226ie Fountain: 1047 Great Fountain: 402 Tilt's Baby: empty @ 1135, 1413ie Warm, sunny--4th of July crowds have arrived! 3 bison delays coming home, and none of the wildlife was on the road! There was traffic control only where a group of elk were gathered in the Madison meadow. I saw more swimmer/waders in the rivers than fishermen. Barbara Lasseter From wolveslax65 at comcast.net Mon Jul 2 18:30:06 2012 From: wolveslax65 at comcast.net (Will Boekel) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 19:30:06 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system is now live Message-ID: The text message system is now up and here is how you register your email or cell phone: Option 1: by internet https://www.rainedout.net/team_page.php?a=bc3eeb1ac1ee14fb6c8b Option 2: by cell (can only register cell phones on this option) Text GEYSERS to 84483 to receive alerts from Yellowstone Event Notification. Groups: Text BEEHIVE to 84483 to receive Beehive alerts from Yellowstone Event Notification. Text WILDLIFE to 84483 to receive Wildlife alerts from Yellowstone Event Notification. Text RAREGEYSER to 84483 to receive Rare Geysers alerts from Yellowstone Event Notification. Note: if you text ?GEYSERS? you will only receive notifications that are sent to all the groups at the same time so register yourself for the individual groups to receive those messages. From cjdaubert at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 19:04:19 2012 From: cjdaubert at hotmail.com (Chris Daubert) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:04:19 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Visit 6/23-6/29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I took an impromptu trip to Yellowstone following the second Morning eruption with the hope of seeing Morning erupt. Several people have inquired about my time spent in the park and specifically at Fountain/Morning's Thief/Morning. (and even more have inquired about my sanity) I spent my time in the park working on the assumption that Morning would erupt somewhere near the middle of the Fountain interval (which seems to have been sound, based on the third eruption). So after my arrival on Saturday, I stayed for the next Fountain eruption and then left for several hours until the middle of the interval approached. I continued to do that until I left on Friday. Since Fountain was throwing some short intervals of about 9 hours occasionally, I would try to be back at the 4 hour mark from the beginning of the previous eruption. Since I enjoy Fountain, I would stay for the eruption (basically waiting more than half the interval hoping for Morning and then expecting Fountain/counting Thiefs/watching Fountain). Many of the durations were around 45 minutes, so watching Fountain and getting out of the parking lot was about an hour of the 4 hours I would give myself off. Basically, I was spending about 9 out of 12 hours at Fountain. And yes, I'm crazy enough to be there in the dark (rewarded with several nice night eruptions of Fountain - especially enjoying the moonlit Fountain early on 6/29 with Maureen and Ed). All told, I'd estimate that I spent 100+ hours observing Morning/Fountain/Thief. Unfortunately I never saw an eruption of Morning, so I can't say how it differed from the intervals I watched. I usually saw Morning's pool rise to a level I'd never observed before (Tara said one day that it was higher than the day it erupted) and there would be some bubbling in the back center of the pool. During this time Morning's Thief would usually remain empty, but then just as I would get excited that Morning was looking good and Thief was empty, water and splashing would appear in Thief, leading to a rising and falling in Thief until one of the rises would result in an eruption. After Thief erupted multiple times (usually ending in short intervals ( From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 15:24:30 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:24:30 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] geyser report Monday, July 3, 2012 Message-ID: Beehive: 0736 (water @ 0724, indicator @ 0725) Grand: 0129, 0747T1C Plume: 0703, 0758, 0851, 0936, 1207--or aybe 1209 (terrible handwriting) Lion: 0532--apparently the end of the series Depression: 0520ie wc, 0949 Aurum: 0625 Castle: 0737 minor Oblong: 0838 Riverside: 0512wc (0519ie), 1125 Daisy: 0526wc, 0527ns, 0754, 1135 (3hr 41min interval) Grotto: 0517 Rocket Major: 0927 (and an earlier eruption was reported as seen this AM, with Grotto continuing) Spa: 0930ie Founain: 0926 d=34 Great Fountain: AM eruption was over by 0500 Artemisia: 1158ie Twig: 1002 After a hectic Beehive-Grand dash, the morning was quiet, geyser-wise. Sunny with wind coming up about 0900. Warm 0600 temps in the low 40's. No final word that I'm aware of re: West Yellowstone fireworks. Most of the area has banned them. The log pile in the pullout across from the Daisy Trailhead had some workers modifying logs there today. Barbara Lasseter From dmonteit at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 16:24:08 2012 From: dmonteit at comcast.net (David Monteith) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 16:24:08 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Beehive Capture Message-ID: <1341357848.26621.1.camel@dhcppc0> I thought this was a fun Beehive start. Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20120703Beehive.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 58808 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20120703/e931bd19/attachment-0001.jpg> From yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 17:05:37 2012 From: yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com (yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:05:37 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system is now live Message-ID: So how do you send alerts to share with others? Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Will Boekel wrote: > >The text message system is now up and here is how you register your email or >cell phone: > >Option 1: by internet > >https://www.rainedout.net/team_page.php?a=bc3eeb1ac1ee14fb6c8b > >Option 2: by cell (can only register cell phones on this option) > > >Text GEYSERS to 84483 to receive alerts from Yellowstone Event Notification. > >Groups: > >Text BEEHIVE to 84483 to receive Beehive alerts from Yellowstone Event >Notification. >Text WILDLIFE to 84483 to receive Wildlife alerts from Yellowstone Event >Notification. >Text RAREGEYSER to 84483 to receive Rare Geysers alerts from Yellowstone >Event Notification. > >Note: if you text ?GEYSERS? you will only receive notifications that are >sent to all the groups at the same time so register yourself for the >individual groups to receive those messages. > >_______________________________________________ >Geysers mailing list >Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > From wolveslax65 at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 22:09:27 2012 From: wolveslax65 at comcast.net (Will Boekel) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 23:09:27 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system is now live Message-ID: <501E068F7C33421281755F8D19E93E65@WillPC> I was planning to have any of the cam operators that wanted to participate in the system will be the ones that send out texts. Will Boekel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120703/16ce8d53/attachment.html> From dmonteit at comcast.net Wed Jul 4 21:09:55 2012 From: dmonteit at comcast.net (David Monteith) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:09:55 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Morning Video Message-ID: <1341461395.10989.2.camel@dhcppc0> Tara arrived home from her recent trip to Yellowstone. Follow the link to see a couple clips of Morning from June 21. Dave From taigabridge at hotmail.com Wed Jul 4 17:43:07 2012 From: taigabridge at hotmail.com (Gordon Bower) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 16:43:07 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system is now live In-Reply-To: <501E068F7C33421281755F8D19E93E65@WillPC> References: <501E068F7C33421281755F8D19E93E65@WillPC> Message-ID: ? What I would like to be able to do, is submit times to geysertimes by sending a text message to a designated address. There is a serious delay in getting the webpage to load and then spinning through the names of geysers on the menus, such that I only ever report anything really odd while I am out in the basin, then fill in a couple extra missed times at dinnertime. If all I had to do was type a few letters and a time, real-time reports from the basin would be much easier to do. Ideally, a format where for common geysers all I would need to type on my phone is a few letters and a time, e.g. "BHI 1835", and a simple syntax to make a more complicated entry, that a computer somewhere could convert to a full-fledged entry into the electronic logbook on receipt of the text. I have kicked around in my head some thoughts about the right balance between terseness and capability, and how to parse the resulting messages, but I won't subject the list as a whole to that. Is this something the geysertimes developers are interested in? If so will be happy to have you contact me off-list and see if I can be of any help in the effort. GRB From fanandmortar at hotmail.com Wed Jul 4 21:47:09 2012 From: fanandmortar at hotmail.com (Tara Cross) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:47:09 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Morning Geyser photos and video Message-ID: I have put some of my pictures of Morning Geyser from June 21, 2012 on Facebook. Here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150965180151997.404051.508956996&type=1&l=e8be885a64 --Tara Cross fanandmortar at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120704/ab44275a/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 18:18:54 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 21:18:54 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report for Wed, 7-4-12 Message-ID: I spent the day at Fan & Mortar, netting 1 event cycle (and not an impressive one). I didn't see much, but the radio picked up a good number of calls. Beehive: 1206 (water @ 1144, indicator @ 1145) Grand: 0500, 1133 Plume: 0537, 0631, 0730, 0824, 0921, 1015, 1109, 1203, 1300,...,1453 Lion: 1203 initial, 1315, 1415ie, 1513 Little Cub ie @ 0645, 1432, 1510 Depression: 0620, 1000 Aurum: 601ns Castle: 0430 ie steam West Triplet: 0506, 1226ie Oblong: 0510ns, 1006ie, 1503 Riverside: 0608, 1220 (overflow started 1033) Daisy: 0733, ...,1005ie, 1232ie, 1455 Grotto: 0514ie, 1043ns Grotto Fountain: 1039 Rocket Major: 1239, 1256ns Fountain: 0801 d=47 Atomizer minor: 0847 d= approx 1 min Penta: 1148ie, 1358ie (still going @ 1502) Seeing lots of old friends in the basin, and many, many visitors. Barbara Lasseter Sorry, forgot to hit send last night. West Yellowstone had its big fireworks display last night. I slept thru it til the loud finale. No fires, fortunately, and we had some rain today. I was away all day, so can't judge just how much. Barbara Lasseter From caros at xmission.com Thu Jul 5 21:36:49 2012 From: caros at xmission.com (Karen Webb) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:36:49 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system is now live In-Reply-To: <501E068F7C33421281755F8D19E93E65@WillPC> References: <501E068F7C33421281755F8D19E93E65@WillPC> Message-ID: <4FF66B61.9080802@xmission.com> I have retired from my normal exec job and will be writing and editing. Would love to be considered to be rotated in as a camp operator (understaning OF is always the priority). Karen Webb On 7/3/2012 11:09 PM, Will Boekel wrote: > I was planning to have any of the cam operators that wanted to > participate in the system will be the ones that send out texts. > Will Boekel > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120705/954543d7/attachment.html> From fanandmortar at hotmail.com Thu Jul 5 22:42:15 2012 From: fanandmortar at hotmail.com (Tara Cross) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:42:15 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Morning and the "Granding" effect In-Reply-To: <5B2C74CCBB4749AC9D7BACE46A08980B@grand> References: <1340325451.5250.4.camel@dhcppc0><640B3CC8A1114091A90C5C9EC9B8D4B2@grand>, , <5B2C74CCBB4749AC9D7BACE46A08980B@grand> Message-ID: Sorry to be responding so late. We did not see "Granding" in the eruption of Morning on June 21, 2012. The bursts estimated at 200 feet were discrete bursts with spikes that seemed to touch the sky. The ease with which Morning could reach that height was astonishing. Someone asked me if there were a lot of blue bubbles (actually green bubbles since the water was murky). Based on my video, about a third of the bursts had some blue/green in them. Based on Google Maps, the distances to the center of Morning's crater are approximately 150 feet from the boardwalk in front of Fountain and 200 feet from the base of the stairs. We were over 200 feet from the geyser when we made our height estimates. --Tara Cross fanandmortar at hotmail.com > From: upperbasin at comcast.net > To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:34:36 -0600 > Subject: Re: [Geysers] Morning 1040 06/21/12 > > Grover recollects correctly. Tomas Vachuda saw this phenomena also, and I > believe it occurred only in the eruptions with a duration of over 40 > minutes. (The intervals were In the 18 hour range.) "Granding" was markedly > different than Morning's typical play of discrete bursts. The water column > was much whiter than Grand and the speed of the separate bursts were > somewhere between the rapid fire of Grand and the slower 1-2-3 bursting of > a Great Fountain superbursts. > I did not see this behavior in the 70s or 1991. > > Paul Strasser > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu > [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Grover Schrayer > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:30 PM > To: Geyser Observation Reports > Subject: Re: [Geysers] Morning 1040 06/21/12 > > Back in the early 80's, when Morning had a very good active period, on > certain eruptions it would do something that Paul Strasser and I > called "Granding". In the middle of an eruption it would suddenly kick > into rapid-fire jetting that shot the water up in a tall column of > jets that was sustained for several seconds.It looked and sounded like > Grand, and created the tallest eruptions we'd seen.We theorized that > when earlier observers reported 200 foot heights, it must have done > something similar to the "Granding". > > Grover Schrayer > > On 6/21/12, Paul Strasser wrote: > > I heard reports that Morning was "200 feet." Just FYI, Sam Martinez and > > Rick H measured about 140 feet from the boardwalk to the approximate > center > > of Morning's crater (a quick check on Google Maps pretty much confirms > > this). For those fortunate to see Morning, 200 ft eruption heights would > > make an angle as seen from the boardwalk of 55 degrees. > > > > I am not saying it didn't erupt that high - I have seen bursts that were > > titanic. But we can all remember that 140 foot baseline when WE get to > > estimate its height. > > > > Paul Strasser > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu > > [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of David Monteith > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 6:38 PM > > To: Geyser Reports > > Subject: [Geysers] Morning 1040 06/21/12 > > > > Tara says that Morning erupted today June 21, 2012 at 1040. She was > > very impressed with the eruption. > > > > Fountain erupted at 1551. > > > > I'm sure we'll hear more later. > > > > Dave > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Geysers mailing list > > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Geysers mailing list > > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120705/67318159/attachment.html> From geyserhound at hotmail.com Fri Jul 6 12:29:31 2012 From: geyserhound at hotmail.com (Andrew Hafner) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:29:31 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Morning photos and video Message-ID: Tara, The only thing better than these photos and the video clip would be seeing the eruption in person, which I did not! Thanks so much for sharing! I wished I could have been there, but don't know when or if I'll ever make it to the park again. Again, thanks. Andrew Hafner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120706/65b11c05/attachment.html> From fanandmortar at hotmail.com Fri Jul 6 14:51:08 2012 From: fanandmortar at hotmail.com (Tara Cross) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:51:08 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Correction to Brief report on Fountain and Morning, June 18-22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: CORRECTION: I found an error in my earlier report on Fountain and Morning from June 22, 2012. In the paragraph below, I listed the early Fountain time on June 21 as 0448. It was actually seen at 0440ie. Sorry to be so late with this correction. "Fountain was seen ie at 0448 by Jim Scheirer on June 21. Going with the idea that Morning might erupt mid-cycle between Fountains again, I and a number of other gazers went to Fountain. The first number I have in my book is Super Frying Pan at 0901ie. The Fountain eruption had turned Jet off, and it restarted at 0932 and proceeded to have 8-11 minute intervals. The water level rose in Morning, and it began to boil. The boiling continued to get stronger. Polly Panos and I were both staring at the pool through binoculars when we saw a doming boil to about 2 feet. Then there was a much larger doming boil and Morning started to erupt at 1040. I decided to take video so I don?t have a record of the Jet eruptions during Morning but the intervals did not shorten to 1-3 minutes like they do when Fountain erupts. They stayed in the same range as before." --Tara Cross fanandmortar at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120706/2d41b8a3/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 17:36:10 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:36:10 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report Friday, July 6, 2012 Message-ID: From billwarnock at wyellowstone.com Fri Jul 6 21:06:17 2012 From: billwarnock at wyellowstone.com (billwarnock at wyellowstone.com) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 21:06:17 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] No Fan & Mortar as of 2100 on 6 July 2012 Message-ID: <20120706210617.8b0af5e9e9782380d98120880eb3a769.e2be6cbd46.wbe@email17.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120706/9ab1b7c3/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 17:57:21 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 20:57:21 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Saturday, July 7, 2012 Message-ID: We had some rain this afternoon--much needed. Beehive: 0556 (indicator 0541) Grand: 0049 G2C, 0844 G2*Q West Triplet: 0611ie (off 0651) Rift: 0646 (off just prior to Grand Plume: 0438, 0537, 0737ie, ...,1026 Lion: 0158, 0255, 0356 Depression: 0227, 0647, .. 1127 Aurum: 1128 Oblong: 0738ie, 1234 Riverside: 0101ie, 0710 (overflow near start @ 0517) Daisy: 0007ie (if I heard correctly), 0535ns, 0814, 1042ie Grotto: 0752 Grotto Fountain: 0750 Fountain: [2125 on 7/6], 1001 d=36 this AM Great Fountain: 0235e (not yet in overflow at 1300) Bulger had a major 0809ie with water in the hole which dropped quickly Tilt's Baby: 0902 Artemisia: 1032 d=26 Atomizer minor 0953 (d=approx 40 seconds, and reportedly with no activity for about 2 hours prior and 2-1/2 hours after) Thunder and looming clouds drove me back to the car at 1225. Again, I'll be out of the basin tomorrow. Barbara Lasseter From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 15:31:12 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:31:12 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] geyser report Monday 7-9-12 Message-ID: Fan and Mortar 1232! Interval 10 days and 22minutes. It has been 1 gorgeous day after another in Yellowstone. It makes you happy to be alive. Beehive: 0359 Indicator: 0345 Grand: 0319e, 0958 West Triplet: 0900ie Plume: 0535, 0630, 0732, 0829, ..,1028, 1123, 1213, 1309 Lion: 0353ie,....1017initial, 1130ie Little Cub: 0647ie Castle: again, post minor 1145major [over 39hr after last major] Oblong: 0937 Riverside: 0750 Daisy: 0620, 0900, 1125 Grotto Fountain: 0656 Grotto: 0658 Rocket Major: 1024ie Fountain: 0616 Great Fountain: 0200e, 1345ie Barbara Lasseter From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Jul 9 15:39:37 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (Scott) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 15:39:37 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Castle and F&M Message-ID: <5030a4e9-1f09-43eb-b56d-5070563f9185@email.android.com> Castle Geyser had a major eruption at 2012 on Saturday 7/7/2012. On Sunday 7/8 it had a minor at 0947 and a second minor at 1422. And then it sloshed and slowness some more. Minor eruptions (if any) were very short-- I recorded one this morning at 0703-- I feel it qualified as a minor but it was too short for the monitor to detect. Finally Castle had a major at 1145 today Monday 7/9/2013. This major-to-major interval was 39h 33m. And today's Fan and Mortar was gorgeous. Interval 10d 00h 22m. Scott Bryan Sent from my Kindle Fire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120709/188fef85/attachment.html> From srlb at my180.net Tue Jul 10 13:35:54 2012 From: srlb at my180.net (Bob Berger) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:35:54 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] [Geysers} Old Faithful Live Streaming Webcam Message-ID: This topic may have been raised before; if so, I've forgotten or missed it... Would it be possible/practical to add to the bottom of the webcam's picture a text line on which the webcam's operator could indicate what the camera was currently showing? While not necessary for those of us who've spent lots of time gazing up and down the basin at its many features, it sure would be a help to much of the non geyser gazing public who happen across the webcam. This recently came home to me in spades when I posted the webcam link to a couple general interest newsgroups. Many, many "what was that" questions followed: like, for example, "What was that thing that looks like an ant hill and shoots water like a fire hose"? Bob srlb at my180.net From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 16:26:28 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:26:28 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Tuesday, July 10, 2012 Message-ID: It is quite warm come mid-day most days, and even last night seemed warm. The "quite warm" translates to hot if you are in an exposed geyser basin. Beehive: 0958 (indicator 0939) Grand 0651, 1343 T1C West Triplet: 0533, 1346 Plume: 0517, 0613, 0708, 0805, 0902, 0959, 1055 Lion: 0545ie. 0940 initial Little Cub: ie at 0815, 0849, 0958, 1032(start), 1359 Depression: 0545ie, 0940ie Aurum: 0758, 1300 Castle: 0430e Oblong: 0521ie, 1018 Riverside: 0839ie Daisy: 0649, 0926ie, 1156 Grotto: 0615, off, then 1145ie Rocket Major: 1259ie Great Fountain: 1209 p=6 Till: 0618ie (major-minor not known) White: 0818ie, 0829ie, 0842ie Artemisia: 1057 d=23 Tilt's Baby: 1312 Penta steam phase @ 1400ie Barbara Lasseter From wolveslax65 at comcast.net Tue Jul 10 13:02:19 2012 From: wolveslax65 at comcast.net (Will Boekel) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:02:19 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project Message-ID: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> Yesterday I was playing around with my new FRS radios and was able to get my laptop to record the transmissions by plugging in a ipod headphone cord from the radio?s headset jack to my laptop?s microphone jack. I then mentioned that I was able to do this on the chat page and KC listed off a few services that can broadcast the FRS radio calls . I am currently busy right now with my own projects but if some one would like to take on the project of making the FRS radio calls available on the internet feel free to do so. I bet many people including myself will be thrilled at having the FRS calls broadcasted over the internet. Will Boekel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120710/dc73622a/attachment.html> From mabdepot at msn.com Tue Jul 10 19:02:32 2012 From: mabdepot at msn.com (MA Bellingham) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:02:32 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Brief Norris news 10 July 2012 In-Reply-To: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> References: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> Message-ID: Tuesday July 10, 2012: Freund 2, Dunn 2, Rieske 3, Hatfield 3 and Bellingham all descended upon Norris Geyser Basin. Here are note worthy tidbits of interest to those yet to visit this summer, or for those who are coming back. It is not a complete listing of activity, or change. Whirligig has begun erupting again, and has been seen 1 or 2 times daily since June 30. Porkchop is down about 8", and the complex across from Pearl (Sagebrush Lizard, Mini Pearl, Creamsicle, whatever local usage you prefer) is devoid of water. Gray Lakes area is having huge boils and waves; the runoff does not reach Green Dragon, but the brownish water flows downhill towards the boardwalk behind Porkchop. Black Growler isn't roaring and has occasional splashes. Ledge is dry. Vixen is active. Some Whirligig times are inferred from Norris staff from the empty (ORANGE) crater. I will post those times on geysertimes.org for the Whirligig fan club. Go Whirligig!!! MA M.A. Bellingham mabdepot at msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120710/fed5da5c/attachment.html> From meechg at verizon.net Tue Jul 10 19:11:22 2012 From: meechg at verizon.net (Graham Meech) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:11:22 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] North Goggles on 6 July Message-ID: <00b001cd5f0a$78426020$68c72060$@net> I got to watch some of the series of six minors on 6 July. As I arrived on Geyser Hill, Lion erupted at 0523ie and I checked North Goggles and it was boiling on each overflow. I watched 5 overflows with durations of 2-3 min and regular intervals of 11 minutes. Lion then had another eruption at 0622 which was the last in its series. 0622 Lion 0626 North Goggles started an extended overflow on the next rise. It overflowed for 30min and there were some small bubbles rising. 0656 dropped, down for 16 minutes 0712 rose for a minute but did not go into overflow, then dropped and boiled at depth 0722 rose into overflow for 2min and boiled, then dropped 0732 North Goggles Minor, 71 minutes after Lion 0741 rose but did not go into overflow, then dropped 0750 rose and boiled, overflowed for 2 1/2 minutes, then dropped 0801 rose and boiled, overflowed for 2 1/2 minutes, then dropped 0812 rose and boiled stronger, overflowed for 2 minutes, then dropped 0823 North Goggles Minor, 51 minute interval I then left to get breakfast but Dan Miller stayed and said North Goggles had another extended overflow for 18min before the next eruption (I may have gotten the order wrong here) 0915 North Goggles Minor, 52 minute interval 0954 North Goggles Minor, 39 minute interval I was back on-site for the next eruption 1036 North Goggles Minor, 42 minute interval 1041 rose and started an extended overflow for 18 minutes, dropping at 1059 1116 North Goggles Minor, 40 minute interval Observations continued after this point with boiling at most rises but we all got distracted by Beehive's Indicator at 1216 and Beehive at 1235 so I am not sure if there were any more minors but it did appear that North Goggles was cooling off. There was some bubbling and minor boil in Goggles Spring and one of the North Goggles eruptions I saw was followed by the splashing from depth for several minutes. Checking Geysertimes.org I see there was another series with 5 eruptions on the 5th with intervals declining from 69 to 30 minutes. Unfortunately I missed the Major on 1 July. Graham Meech. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120710/52257892/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 15:52:18 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:52:18 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 11, 2012 Message-ID: I was awakened early this AM by thunder and lightning. As the morning progessed, we got a lot of wind, but no rain (yet). The skies had interesting clouds, and lots of haze (ID fires?). I stopped to watch a bull elk at Whiskey Flats. He was intent on eating, ignoring the crowds gathered on the pull out above him. Visitors were deciding if that was an elk or a moose and were impressed by his "horns". One youngster asked why they were fuzzy, another if it was a girl or a boy. Never underestimate the educational benefits of travel--for children AND adults! Most of my time was spent in the lower geyser basin. I had forgotten to put on my watch, but Lynn Stephens graciously loaned me one. Grand: 0306e, 1000 2 burst Plume: 0850, 0945 Rift: 0916ie Fountain: 1235 (so much wind there that I was suprised to see the temp was in the mid-70's when I returned to the car) Great Fountain: 0020e, 1102 p=6 Labial: 0739 Pink Cone: 0851 (minimal rainbows with so much haze filtering the sunshine) White Dome ie @ 1016, 1040, 1110 Morning's Thief: 1033, 1058, 1122, 1134, 1216, 1230, 1236 Artemisia: 0704ie Many of the multitude of gazers we have enjoyed seeing in the park have or are leaving. I know their visits go too quickly for them--and for me also! It's wrenching to think that's it for another year, or at least we all hope it's just for another year. Travel safely and take care!! Barbara Lasseter From dmonteit at comcast.net Wed Jul 11 17:02:52 2012 From: dmonteit at comcast.net (David Monteith) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:02:52 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Lightning Message-ID: <1342051372.6350.1.camel@dhcppc0> Since Barbara mentioned it, I thought I'd include a capture from this morning Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: shot0011.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28797 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20120711/fcb4c5a7/attachment-0002.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: shot0010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85741 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20120711/fcb4c5a7/attachment-0003.jpg> From diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 11:23:41 2012 From: diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com (Andiy Wagner) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:23:41 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 11, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reminds me of a lady we saw on the coast who kept seeing sighs for Elk as in Roosevelt Elk along the highway. She then looked down at the rocks and saw some sea lions and said "Look Elk! I have seen the signs. Those are Elk!" Dad and I almost fell off the cliff we were laughing so hard. Seriously, there is some serious educational gaps in places. On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Barbara Lasseter < barbara.lasseter at gmail.com> wrote: > I was awakened early this AM by thunder and lightning. As the > morning progessed, we got a lot of wind, but no rain (yet). The skies > had interesting clouds, and lots of haze (ID fires?). I stopped to > watch a bull elk at Whiskey Flats. He was intent on eating, ignoring > the crowds gathered on the pull out above him. Visitors were deciding > if that was an elk or a moose and were impressed by his "horns". One > youngster asked why they were fuzzy, another if it was a girl or a > boy. Never underestimate the educational benefits of travel--for > children AND adults! Most of my time was spent in the lower geyser > basin. I had forgotten to put on my watch, but Lynn Stephens > graciously loaned me one. > > Grand: 0306e, 1000 2 burst > Plume: 0850, 0945 > Rift: 0916ie > Fountain: 1235 (so much wind there that I was suprised to see the temp > was in the mid-70's when I returned to the car) > Great Fountain: 0020e, 1102 p=6 > Labial: 0739 > Pink Cone: 0851 (minimal rainbows with so much haze filtering the > sunshine) > White Dome ie @ 1016, 1040, 1110 > Morning's Thief: 1033, 1058, 1122, 1134, 1216, 1230, 1236 > Artemisia: 0704ie > > Many of the multitude of gazers we have enjoyed seeing in the park > have or are leaving. I know their visits go too quickly for them--and > for me also! It's wrenching to think that's it for another year, or > at least we all hope it's just for another year. Travel safely and > take care!! > > Barbara Lasseter > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120712/55accb90/attachment.html> From riozafiro at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 17:45:41 2012 From: riozafiro at gmail.com (Pat Snyder) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:45:41 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello. A photographer acquaintance of mine is seeking information about Black Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV. He thought it was on private property and not accessible. I have never heard of this geyser, unless it is also called "Fly Geyser," which I have seen in photos, and that one is on private property but it seems to be accessible. Thank you for any information you can provide! Pat Snyder From jimscheir at aol.com Thu Jul 12 17:58:56 2012 From: jimscheir at aol.com (jimscheir at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project In-Reply-To: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> References: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> Message-ID: <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> I cannot imagine why anyone wants the FRS radio calls from the Geyser Basin broadcast over the internet. The vast majority are of no interest to those of us in the Park, let alone those not here. The incessant calls to repeat the last transmission, the requests for help in finding lost children, the calls from the Visitor Center of "has anyone seen Daisy or Riverside", the requests to go to channel 5, the constant calls this year from the crane operators at the Inn to one another, the visitors calling to one another not knowing it is the Geyser Channel (this year for a whole day in Spanish), the often garbled calls, the people who have put their radio on Voice Activation, etc. make it a real pain much of the time to listen to channel 4.5 in the Basin when we have to listen to hear the Geyser Eruption times. A high proportion of the calls never reach the Visitor Center because the reception inside is terrible and the noise level is high. There are also issues of legality that would have to be settled. Some statements I have seen indicate that no FRS signals may be sent over phone lines at any time. Whether that would apply to the internet sent over lines that include phone lines in some places is unclear. There are also other legal issues to be investigated and permissions that would be needed. Another issue is whether permission is needed to rebroadcast transmissions made by those speaking. This also includes the issue of privacy. A number of gazers have already stated that they will stop all broadcasting on their radios if the transmissions are put on the internet. I talked to all the Gazers who are here now and spend a lot of time in the Park and none of us thinks that the FRS radio calls should be broadcast. Jim Scheirer -----Original Message----- From: Will Boekel To: Listserve Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 8:11 pm Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project Yesterday I was playing around with my new FRS radios and was able to get my laptop to record the transmissions by plugging in a ipod headphone cord from the radio?s headset jack to my laptop?s microphone jack. I then mentioned that I was able to do this on the chat page and KC listed off a few services that can broadcast the FRS radio calls . I am currently busy right now with my own projects but if some one would like to take on the project of making the FRS radio calls available on the internet feel free to do so. I bet many people including myself will be thrilled at having the FRS calls broadcasted over the internet. Will Boekel _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120712/0b7ae9dc/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 18:39:48 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:39:48 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Thursday, July 12, 2012 Message-ID: The parking lot for Fountain Paint Pots was closing as I went by just after 0600 this AM. Looks like they may have repainted the lines. It was open (and jam packed) as I left after Grand. The AM started with a rainbow Beehive. You could tell it would be a great day! Beehive: 0703 (indicator @ 0646) Grand: [yesterday 7/11 2304e], 0551ns (0552e), 1416 T1Q West Triplet: 1423 Rift: 0551ie Plume: 0636, ...,0830, 0926, ..., 1119, 1211, ..., 1402 Lion: 0651, 0754, 0858 minor, 0901 minor, 0918, 1020 Little Cub ie @ 0711, 0744, 0821, 0856, 1111, 1432 Depression: 0940 Aurum: 0652, 1354 for a closed interval of 7 hours, 2 minutes Castle: [ 7/11 2223e], 1217 Oblong: 1138 Riverside: 1006 Daisy: 1001ie, 1219, 1491ie Grotto: 1020 Rocket Major: 1314 Fountain: 0946 d=48 Great Fountain: 1113 p=0 Atomizer major: 1018 Artemisia: 1027 N Goggles minors at ...., 0934, 1044, 1211, 1250, 1321, 1410 The 1416 Grand had exhibited prolonged massive overflow, waves, and a couple of aborted start-type boils before dropping on the 2nd turban prior to the actual eruption--T1C may not be the accurate coding for that one. Others may be able to offer a better explanation. The ranger naturalist had been advising folks @ Grand to take turns in the shade, wear hats, drink water because of the extreme heat. As usual, once the eruption started, no one seemed to be noticing the heat at all. I hear the storms last evening brought little rain to OF, but lots of wind, eerie skies, and dramatic rainbows visible from both the Inn and the lodge cabins--with Old Faithful erupting under the very wide and strong rainbow. Barbara Lasseter From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 16:45:09 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:45:09 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Friday, July 13, 2012 Message-ID: It was overcast last night and much warmer this AM--in the low 50's, where we have been seeing high 30's and low to mid 40's--increasing rapidly of course once the sun comes up. Several days recently I have encountered dozens of bicylists on my way into or out of the park. I wonder if the folks signing on for a high adventure bicycling trip thru Yellowstone understood the cycling conditions here--and how many demand a refund. Beehive: 1025 (indicator @ 1012--13 minutes to eruption) Grand: 0306e, 0947 T1C Plume: 0623ie, 0716, 0812, 0905, 0957, ....,1146 Lion: 0601, 0707, 0814, 0918 Little Cub ie @ 0659, ...,1029, 1104, 1128 Depression: 0925ie Aurum: 1053 West Triplet: 1003 Oblong: 0726, 1151 Riverside: 1009 Daisy: 0545ie, 0816, 1038 Grotto: -515ie, 0931ns Fountain: [last night 7/12 at approx 2220ie] Great Fountain: 0808 p=0 Artemisia: 0553 Flood: 0742ie Sawmill: 0512ie (off by 0715), 0928, off before 1128 Mornings Thief: 0811 White Dome: 0817 Pink Cone: 0818ie Uncertain: 1007ie with Sawmill N Goggles Minor: 1139 Regarding the "Grand Abort" event at the 1423 Grand eruption yesterday, where Grand filled, overflowed in great volume, and had what appeared to be aborted starts in boiling before dropping, I understand that is referred to as a "Type 2" delay--Grand almost erupts, then doesn't. Turban had a 22* minute cycle (19 min, 22* min, 20min, 18 min)--not a turban delay. I could not see if vent overflowed from my vantage point. Grand never reached overflow after 20 min. on the subsequent turban cycle, then erupted 18 min later on the 2nd turban after the event. Many of you veteran gazers may have known this terminology, but it was new to me, so for the sake of others who may also have been unaware... Barbara Lasseter From david.schwarz at alumni.duke.edu Thu Jul 12 20:08:53 2012 From: david.schwarz at alumni.duke.edu (David Schwarz) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:08:53 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project In-Reply-To: <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This was pretty close to my reaction. When everyone first started picking up CB radios in the 1980s, the explicit purpose was to coordinate observation efforts and to share information with people in the area that could enable them to see something they might otherwise miss. When it comes down to it, the purpose hasn't changed. In addition to eruption times, this includes such information as extended overflows of North Goggles, event cycles at Fan and Mortar, and the beginning of hot periods at Giant, for example. By that measure, the signal-to-noise ratio has gotten truly horrendous in recent years, and even if it hadn't, it's not clear what use this information would be to anyone farther away than local radio range. This listserv, Geyser Times, and geysers.net already provide eruption data and descriptions within minutes to hours after it happens. That really ought to be good enough for those of us located hundreds or thousands of miles away. For the sake of perspective, consider this: Before the existence of the internet and the listserv, if something rare like Giant, Morning, or Steamboat happened, unless someone called and told you, the first you'd hear about it would be days to weeks later when you received a postcard from GOSA. For less dramatic developments (Fan and Mortar emerging from dormancy, say), the news might not arrive until the next Sput, potentially months later. The daily updates from the internet are nice by comparison, but they're also more than sufficient for practical planning purposes. Like Jim, I can't imagine why anyone would subject themselves to geyser basin FRS traffic if they weren't in a position to act on the information it occasionally contains. David Schwarz On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:58 PM, wrote: > I cannot imagine why anyone wants the FRS radio calls from the Geyser > Basin broadcast over the internet. The vast majority are of no interest to > those of us in the Park, let alone those not here. The incessant calls to > repeat the last transmission, the requests for help in finding lost > children, the calls from the Visitor Center of "has anyone seen Daisy or > Riverside", the requests to go to channel 5, the constant calls this year > from the crane operators at the Inn to one another, the visitors calling to > one another not knowing it is the Geyser Channel (this year for a whole day > in Spanish), the often garbled calls, the people who have put their radio > on Voice Activation, etc. make it a real pain much of the time to listen to > channel 4.5 in the Basin when we have to listen to hear the Geyser Eruption > times. A high proportion of the calls never reach the Visitor Center > because the reception inside is terrible and the noise level is high. > > There are also issues of legality that would have to be settled. Some > statements I have seen indicate that no FRS signals may be sent over phone > lines at any time. Whether that would apply to the internet sent over lines > that include phone lines in some places is unclear. There are also other > legal issues to be investigated and permissions that would be needed. > > Another issue is whether permission is needed to rebroadcast transmissions > made by those speaking. This also includes the issue of privacy. A number > of gazers have already stated that they will stop all broadcasting on their > radios if the transmissions are put on the internet. > > I talked to all the Gazers who are here now and spend a lot of time in the > Park and none of us thinks that the FRS radio calls should be broadcast. > > Jim Scheirer > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Boekel > To: Listserve > Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 8:11 pm > Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project > > Yesterday I was playing around with my new FRS radios and was able to > get my laptop to record the transmissions by plugging in a ipod headphone > cord from the radio?s headset jack to my laptop?s microphone jack. I then > mentioned that I was able to do this on the chat page and KC listed off a > few services that can broadcast the FRS radio calls . I am currently busy > right now with my own projects but if some one would like to take on the > project of making the FRS radio calls available on the internet feel free > to do so. I bet many people including myself will be thrilled at having the > FRS calls broadcasted over the internet. > > Will Boekel > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing listGeysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120712/fa45b48d/attachment.html> From ikscx at yahoo.com Thu Jul 12 18:44:26 2012 From: ikscx at yahoo.com (Greg Walljasper) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:44:26 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is called fly geyser, I understand it is a drilled well, and a continuous spouter. I also understand it is on private land. Search engines are your friend. On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Pat Snyder wrote: > Hello. > A photographer acquaintance of mine is seeking information about Black Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV. He thought it was on private property and not accessible. > > I have never heard of this geyser, unless it is also called "Fly Geyser," which I have seen in photos, and that one is on private property but it seems to be accessible. > > Thank you for any information you can provide! > Pat Snyder > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > From meechg at verizon.net Fri Jul 13 16:44:11 2012 From: meechg at verizon.net (Graham Meech) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:44:11 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project In-Reply-To: <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005301cd6151$677182f0$365488d0$@net> I am not going to get into whether the FRS radio content should, or should not be transmitted but just respond to Jim's comment about "not being able to imagine why anyone wants the FRS calls" broadcast. For me and I suspect others at home, it's really similar to the urges that make people spend hours waiting to see water in Beehive's Indicator and other seemingly irrelevant events. Many of us want to be on the railing watching but it's just that those of us on the internet are hundreds or thousands of miles further away. On a practical note, knowing that there's a splash in Beehive's Indicator or water in the indicator can let the camera operas get the camera zoomed in so people can see the indicator start on video. Similar with waves on Grand so people can see the start of Grand. Sometimes operators miss the start of Castle or Daisy (especially when Old Faithful is in its window), so hearing a call from FRS would enable us to catch more eruptions. Also the excitement of hearing something less common, such as an F&M event cycle or a Giant hot period is interesting, just like listening to a sports broadcast or something. You can always wait to "read the results" the next day but there's an excitement to hearing the information "live". It's true that the information is far less enjoyable than seeing it in person but most of us can't spend much time in the park for various reasons. So that's a different perspective. There are plenty of videos on YouTube and other places that have UGB FRS transmissions in them, so don't assume there's any privacy in the messages transmitted on the public FRS channels either, you never know what will be posted in a video clip. That's my view from over 1500 miles away. Go Morning! Graham Meech -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120713/be650895/attachment.html> From mikeobrien at spamcop.net Fri Jul 13 09:55:02 2012 From: mikeobrien at spamcop.net (Mike O'Brien) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:55:02 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project In-Reply-To: <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <3967B2D317084F729462E21EFC9A565A@WillPC> <8CF2EA9D02D584A-BBC-7DF60@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7B0E48CF-6616-4C6E-80D4-33B96AA7DE6D@spamcop.net> In response to Mr. Scheirer, the simple answer is, why keep an eye on the webcam? I'd listen to an Internet FRS rebroadcast for the same reason: a "sense of presence". Times I can't be there, it feels good to see and hear the same things as I would if I were there. Practical value: close to none. Emotional value: could be immense, if I'm having a bad day! I'm sorry people are down on the notion. I certainly wouldn't mind having my own calls rebroadcast on the 'net when I'm there, any more than I would object to showing up on the Webcam when I'm wandering the OF area. No skin off my nose. Frankly, the only problem I see is one of Internet bandwidth. There ain't much to be had around OF, which is where the radio would have to be. If the Park Service or Xanterra, which own all the wired connections, weren't in on the gig, I don't see how it could be done. Sure doesn't seem like that cell tower has enough bandwidth to do streaming audio. Mike O'Brien On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:58 PM, wrote: > I cannot imagine why anyone wants the FRS radio calls from the Geyser Basin broadcast over the internet. The vast majority are of no interest to those of us in the Park, let alone those not here. The incessant calls to repeat the last transmission, the requests for help in finding lost children, the calls from the Visitor Center of "has anyone seen Daisy or Riverside", the requests to go to channel 5, the constant calls this year from the crane operators at the Inn to one another, the visitors calling to one another not knowing it is the Geyser Channel (this year for a whole day in Spanish), the often garbled calls, the people who have put their radio on Voice Activation, etc. make it a real pain much of the time to listen to channel 4.5 in the Basin when we have to listen to hear the Geyser Eruption times. A high proportion of the calls never reach the Visitor Center because the reception inside is terrible and the noise level is high. > > There are also issues of legality that would have to be settled. Some statements I have seen indicate that no FRS signals may be sent over phone lines at any time. Whether that would apply to the internet sent over lines that include phone lines in some places is unclear. There are also other legal issues to be investigated and permissions that would be needed. > > Another issue is whether permission is needed to rebroadcast transmissions made by those speaking. This also includes the issue of privacy. A number of gazers have already stated that they will stop all broadcasting on their radios if the transmissions are put on the internet. > > I talked to all the Gazers who are here now and spend a lot of time in the Park and none of us thinks that the FRS radio calls should be broadcast. > > Jim Scheirer > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Boekel > To: Listserve > Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 8:11 pm > Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project > > Yesterday I was playing around with my new FRS radios and was able to get my laptop to record the transmissions by plugging in a ipod headphone cord from the radio?s headset jack to my laptop?s microphone jack. I then mentioned that I was able to do this on the chat page and KC listed off a few services that can broadcast the FRS radio calls . I am currently busy right now with my own projects but if some one would like to take on the project of making the FRS radio calls available on the internet feel free to do so. I bet many people including myself will be thrilled at having the FRS calls broadcasted over the internet. > > Will Boekel > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > From wolveslax65 at comcast.net Thu Jul 12 18:51:52 2012 From: wolveslax65 at comcast.net (Will Boekel) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:51:52 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Radio Broadcasting Message-ID: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers about posting the idea of broadcasting the FRS calls. I am relatively new to the gazing community and I had no Idea that there was so much opposition to this idea. I am and will not work on the project because I simply don?t have the time and it sounds like the idea is not being taken as being a good one. So ill leave it at that. Just an idea. Thanks, Will Boekel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120712/3c4d501c/attachment.html> From upperbasin at comcast.net Fri Jul 13 17:28:18 2012 From: upperbasin at comcast.net (Paul Strasser) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:28:18 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64854463EB7243539B5A0D7946381633@grand> I don't think it has an official name. When we visited we looked at references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well and is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 yards off the road. -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Walljasper Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:44 PM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV It is called fly geyser, I understand it is a drilled well, and a continuous spouter. I also understand it is on private land. Search engines are your friend. On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Pat Snyder wrote: > Hello. > A photographer acquaintance of mine is seeking information about Black Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV. He thought it was on private property and not accessible. > > I have never heard of this geyser, unless it is also called "Fly Geyser," which I have seen in photos, and that one is on private property but it seems to be accessible. > > Thank you for any information you can provide! > Pat Snyder > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu From diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 19:28:32 2012 From: diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com (Andiy Wagner) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 20:28:32 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: <64854463EB7243539B5A0D7946381633@grand> References: <64854463EB7243539B5A0D7946381633@grand> Message-ID: Fly Geyser is the name of it. It is a hot well that was drilled for geothermal energy. Now a cool geyser with neat terraces you can see from the road, but it is on private property. The owner, however, do allow people onto Fly Ranch if people ask. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 6:28 PM, Paul Strasser wrote: > I don't think it has an official name. When we visited we looked at > references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well > and > is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. > > It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 > yards off the road. > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu > [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Walljasper > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:44 PM > To: Geyser Observation Reports > Subject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black > RockGeyser > in Gerlach, NV > > It is called fly geyser, I understand it is a drilled well, and a > continuous > spouter. I also understand it is on private land. Search engines are your > friend. > On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Pat Snyder wrote: > > > Hello. > > A photographer acquaintance of mine is seeking information about Black > Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV. He thought it was on private property and not > accessible. > > > > I have never heard of this geyser, unless it is also called "Fly Geyser," > which I have seen in photos, and that one is on private property but it > seems to be accessible. > > > > Thank you for any information you can provide! > > Pat Snyder > > _______________________________________________ > > Geysers mailing list > > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120713/78722cfa/attachment.html> From diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 20:20:34 2012 From: diggerfieldmouse at gmail.com (Andiy Wagner) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:20:34 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Friday, July 13, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dad gave a ride one time to some Germans who did not understand that the miles were not km. They were wanting to walk to Old Faithful in like 4 hours from the entrance. Biking up there is kinda like Ironman's for runners. Brave souls. Grand has been doing some really weird things of late, hasn't it. I had heard that term from Sam, I think when he, Jeannine (my aunt), and I went hiking out there one time. It was after Rick had passed so I know it was not him who had told me. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Barbara Lasseter < barbara.lasseter at gmail.com> wrote: > It was overcast last night and much warmer this AM--in the low 50's, > where we have been seeing high 30's and low to mid 40's--increasing > rapidly of course once the sun comes up. > > Several days recently I have encountered dozens of bicylists on my way > into or out of the park. I wonder if the folks signing on for a high > adventure bicycling trip thru Yellowstone understood the cycling > conditions here--and how many demand a refund. > > Beehive: 1025 (indicator @ 1012--13 minutes to eruption) > Grand: 0306e, 0947 T1C > Plume: 0623ie, 0716, 0812, 0905, 0957, ....,1146 > Lion: 0601, 0707, 0814, 0918 > Little Cub ie @ 0659, ...,1029, 1104, 1128 > Depression: 0925ie > Aurum: 1053 > West Triplet: 1003 > Oblong: 0726, 1151 > Riverside: 1009 > Daisy: 0545ie, 0816, 1038 > Grotto: -515ie, 0931ns > Fountain: [last night 7/12 at approx 2220ie] > Great Fountain: 0808 p=0 > Artemisia: 0553 > Flood: 0742ie > Sawmill: 0512ie (off by 0715), 0928, off before 1128 > Mornings Thief: 0811 > White Dome: 0817 > Pink Cone: 0818ie > Uncertain: 1007ie with Sawmill > N Goggles Minor: 1139 > > Regarding the "Grand Abort" event at the 1423 Grand eruption > yesterday, where Grand filled, overflowed in great volume, and had > what appeared to be aborted starts in boiling before dropping, I > understand that is referred to as a "Type 2" delay--Grand almost > erupts, then doesn't. Turban had a 22* minute cycle (19 min, 22* > min, 20min, 18 min)--not a turban delay. I could not see if vent > overflowed from my vantage point. Grand never reached overflow after > 20 min. on the subsequent turban cycle, then erupted 18 min later on > the 2nd turban after the event. Many of you veteran gazers may have > known this terminology, but it was new to me, so for the sake of > others who may also have been unaware... > > Barbara Lasseter > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120713/e442bf46/attachment.html> From riozafiro at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 00:45:01 2012 From: riozafiro at gmail.com (Pat Snyder) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 00:45:01 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: <64854463EB7243539B5A0D7946381633@grand> References: <64854463EB7243539B5A0D7946381633@grand> Message-ID: Thank you very much! From what I found out from other sources (including web searches), the land owner is now charging $1,000 per vehicle to go into the area and photograph the "geyser," and you are required to have a $1 million insurance policy. Fly Geyser | Friends of Black Rock High Rock Also, "Fly Geyser" and "Black Rock Geyser" are the same--I wasn't sure about that before. Fly Geyser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I will relay that to my photographer friend. Pat Snyder On Jul 13, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Paul Strasser wrote: > I don't think it has an official name. When we visited we looked at > references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well and > is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. > > It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 > yards off the road. > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu > [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Walljasper > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:44 PM > To: Geyser Observation Reports > Subject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser > in Gerlach, NV > > It is called fly geyser, I understand it is a drilled well, and a continuous > spouter. I also understand it is on private land. Search engines are your > friend. > On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Pat Snyder wrote: > >> Hello. >> A photographer acquaintance of mine is seeking information about Black > Rock Geyser in Gerlach, NV. He thought it was on private property and not > accessible. >> >> I have never heard of this geyser, unless it is also called "Fly Geyser," > which I have seen in photos, and that one is on private property but it > seems to be accessible. >> >> Thank you for any information you can provide! >> Pat Snyder >> _______________________________________________ >> Geysers mailing list >> Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/46e078c9/attachment.html> From riozafiro at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 01:05:32 2012 From: riozafiro at gmail.com (Pat Snyder) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 01:05:32 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Possible Beehive eruption 0159 Message-ID: Guessing from the illumination in the right spot on the still cam. Pat Snyder -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: oldfaith2-7.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 83442 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20120714/b180d0e1/attachment-0001.jpg> From stepheneide at cableone.net Sat Jul 14 06:39:17 2012 From: stepheneide at cableone.net (Stephen Eide) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 07:39:17 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Radio Broadcasting In-Reply-To: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> References: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> Message-ID: Hello All, I must admit I would be one of the people who would at least sometime listen to the radio calls if I could. I listen when I am in the park 'cause I want to know what's erupting. The same would be true at home. Now, at work, well, its not worth the trouble it could cause.... But, if it doesn't happen, I will waste that time on other things. Maybe computer games. Stephen Eide On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Will Boekel wrote: > Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers about posting the idea of > broadcasting the FRS calls. I am relatively new to the gazing community and > I had no Idea that there was so much opposition to this idea. > I am and will not work on the project because I simply don?t have the time > and it sounds like the idea is not being taken as being a good one. So ill > leave it at that. Just an idea. > > Thanks, > Will Boekel > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/4650de32/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Sat Jul 14 08:00:34 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlac... Message-ID: <3953a.63e24575.3d32e392@aol.com> I believe that both previous respondents might be wrong, as this name implies that this is NOT the Fly Ranch thing. More likely it is a spring (probably the southernmost) in the 5+ mile long Double Hot Springs-Black Rock Hot Springs trend along the west face of the Black Rock Range. As the proverbial bird flies, this is about 45 miles northeast of Gerlach and roughly 25 miles east-northeast of the Fly Ranch area. Per Garside and Schilling (1979) (yes, it is getting dated), there are traces of travertine and siliceous sinter among these springs, of which the southernmost had a temperature of 202F, right at boiling for the altitude. That, perhaps, is the Black Rock Geyser. Now, should the photographers photo show good ol' Fly Ranch, well then......... Scott Bryan ------------------- In a message dated 7/13/2012 6:36:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: I don't think it has an official name. When we visited we looked at references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well and is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 yards off the road. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/521271c5/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Sat Jul 14 08:03:59 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] FRS Radio Broadcasting Project Message-ID: <39658.4ef53519.3d32e45f@aol.com> Let me be a curmudgeon (people say I haven't been one a whole lot lately) and say think the very thought of putting the FRS radio calls on the internet is so stupidly pointless as to not really be worth discussion. So I'll end by saying I wouldn't even think of "tuning in." Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/b7814197/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 15:17:04 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:17:04 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report, Saturday, July 14, 2012 Message-ID: Kinda a cloudy, rainy day today--at least until after I came home. Beehive: 0156 (indicator @ 0141) Grand: [Fri 7/13 2252e], today 0502e, 1136 G1Q Plume: 0626, 0720, 0815, 1000 Little Cub ie @ 0720, 0750, 0905, 0941, 1019 Depression: 0917 Castle: 3 minute minor at 0638 (0641e), major @ 1033ie (1050e) Oblong: 0649ie Riverside: 1023 Daisy: 0949 Great Fountain: 0640e White Dome: 0625 Dome was ie at 0516 and repeated thru the AM Artemisia: 0014 (some gazers never sleep--Chris Daubert made it back to the hill in time to call Beehive's indicator, too!!) Barbara Lasseter From riozafiro at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 10:49:24 2012 From: riozafiro at gmail.com (Pat Snyder) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:49:24 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlac... In-Reply-To: <3953a.63e24575.3d32e392@aol.com> References: <3953a.63e24575.3d32e392@aol.com> Message-ID: <65402377-1B34-479E-8EAD-55338C15BD85@gmail.com> Thank you, Scott! I will pass this along to the photographer as well. He can figure it out from there. Much appreciated. Pat Snyder On Jul 14, 2012, at 8:00 AM, wrote: > I believe that both previous respondents might be wrong, as this name implies that this is NOT the Fly Ranch thing. > > More likely it is a spring (probably the southernmost) in the 5+ mile long Double Hot Springs-Black Rock Hot Springs trend along the west face of the Black Rock Range. As the proverbial bird flies, this is about 45 miles northeast of Gerlach and roughly 25 miles east-northeast of the Fly Ranch area. > > Per Garside and Schilling (1979) (yes, it is getting dated), there are traces of travertine and siliceous sinter among these springs, of which the southernmost had a temperature of 202F, right at boiling for the altitude. That, perhaps, is the Black Rock Geyser. > > Now, should the photographers photo show good ol' Fly Ranch, well then......... > > Scott Bryan > > ------------------- > In a message dated 7/13/2012 6:36:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: > I don't think it has an official name. When we visited we looked at > references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well and > is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. > > It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 > yards off the road. > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/eaadfcb9/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 16:13:13 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:13:13 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 Message-ID: I found myself unexpectedly at Norris today. What was to be a hike never left Norris Geyser Basin, where there was lots of intersting activity. The UGB data reported here is compliments of Kitt Barger. Norris data collected by MA Bellingham, Rocco Paperiello, Clark Murray, and myself. Beehive: 0651 (indicator @ 0636) Grand: 0727 T2Q West Triplet: 0749ie Plume: 0713 Oblong: 0720ns Riverside: 1029 Fountain: 1036ie Whirligig: 1024 d=approx 3 minutes great sound effects! Constant: I saw several, but did not intend to linger there and was not recording times Incline Geyser ie: (this is what grabbed our attention big time at about 0800) Rocco dashed over to verify, then we both relocated from Constant to Incline, hoping for a repeat. Graceful: 1st approx 0800-0820, 2nd 1115 Collapsed Cave geyser: approx 40foot angled eruption during the 2nd Graceful Vixen: minors at 1109 (40 sec, 6-8ft), 1158 (40sec, 8ft), 1249 (75sec, 13-14ft), 1341 (35sec, 8-10ft) There was a black wolf feeding on an elk carcass at the base of the Chocolate pots on my way home. For 2 days in a row now I have seen a bald eagle in the dead tree on the S side of the W entrance rd approx 1 mile W of the old nest across from a convenient pullout. Tomorrow I will be out of the basin. Barbara Lasseter From sbezore at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 14 17:27:26 2012 From: sbezore at sbcglobal.net (STEPHEN P BEZORE) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342312046.98255.YahooMailClassic@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> $1,000 per car?? Now that's inflation.? Some years ago,?I think 12 years, it cost us a couple of beers at Bruno's for the manager of Fly Ranch and his son to give us?a guided tour.? We also gave them a twelve-pack of Bud as a thank you gift. ? I think I heard on some past visit to Gerlach that the Fly Ranch had been sold and the new owner was more restrictive about getting access to the "geyser".? I guess so! ? Steve --- On Sat, 7/14/12, Pat Snyder wrote: From: Pat Snyder Subject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlach, NV To: "Geyser Observation Reports" Date: Saturday, July 14, 2012, 12:45 AM Thank you very much! From bogus@does.not.exist.com Thu Jul 12 21:58:25 2012 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 04:58:25 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: h the "geyser," and you are required to have a $1 million insurance policy.= =A0 Fly Geyser | Friends of Black Rock High Rock Also, "Fly Geyser" and "Black Rock Geyser" are the same--I wasn't sure abou= t that before. Fly Geyser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I will relay that to my photographer friend. Pat Snyder Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu ---6906265-1634358280-1342312046=:98255 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
$1,000 per car?  Now that's inflati= on.  Some years ago, I think 12 years, it cost us a couple of bee= rs at Bruno's for the manager of Fly Ranch and his son to give us a gu= ided tour.  We also gave them a twelve-pack of Bud as a thank you gift= .
 
I think I heard on some past visit to Gerlach that the Fly Ranch had b= een sold and the new owner was more restrictive about getting access to the= "geyser".  I guess so!
 
Steve

--- On Sat, 7/14/12, Pat Snyder <riozafiro at gmail= .com> wrote:

From: Pat Snyder <riozafiro at gmail.com>
S= ubject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black Rock= Geyser in Gerlach, NV
To: "Geyser Observation Reports" <geyser= s at lists.wallawalla.edu>
Date: Saturday, July 14, 2012, 12:45 AM
Thank you very much!

From what I found out from other sources (including web searches), the= land owner is now charging $1,000 per vehicle to go into the area and phot= ograph the "geyser," and you are required to have a $1 million insurance po= licy. 

Also, "Fly Geyser" and "Black Rock Geyser" are the same--I wasn't sure= about that before.
I will relay that to my photographer friend.

Pat Snyder



Geysers mailing list
Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
https://lists.wallawalla.ed= u/mailman/listinfo/geysers

________________________= _______________________
Geysers mailing list
Geyser= s at lists.wallawalla.edu
https://lists.wallawalla.edu/mailman/listinfo= /geysers

_______________________________________________
Geysers = mailing list
Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
https://lists.wallawalla.ed= u/mailman/listinfo/geysers


= -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
G= eysers mailing list
Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu
https://lists.wallawal= la.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers
---6906265-1634358280-1342312046=:98255-- From sbezore at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 14 18:36:02 2012 From: sbezore at sbcglobal.net (STEPHEN P BEZORE) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlac... In-Reply-To: <3953a.63e24575.3d32e392@aol.com> Message-ID: <1342316162.69083.YahooMailClassic@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have spent a lot of time over the years with friends in the area of the Double Hot Springs-Black Rock Hot Springs trend.? There are no spouting springs--at least as of a couple of years ago.? One year we tracked down the southernmost and hottest spring.? There was only a trickle of water coming from several small holes in an area I would describe as "hot muck". ? Steve --- On Sat, 7/14/12, TSBryan at aol.com wrote: From: TSBryan at aol.com Subject: Re: [Geysers] A Photographer Is Seeking Info about Black RockGeyser in Gerlac... To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Date: Saturday, July 14, 2012, 8:00 AM I believe that both previous respondents might be wrong, as this name implies that this is NOT the Fly Ranch thing. ? More likely it?is a spring (probably the southernmost) in the 5+ mile long Double Hot Springs-Black Rock Hot Springs trend along the west face of the Black Rock Range. As the proverbial bird flies, this is about 45 miles northeast of Gerlach and roughly 25 miles east-northeast of the Fly Ranch area. ? Per Garside and Schilling (1979)?(yes, it is getting dated), there are traces of travertine and siliceous sinter among these springs, of which the southernmost had a temperature of 202F, right at boiling for the altitude. That, perhaps, is the Black Rock Geyser. ? Now, should the photographers photo show good ol' Fly Ranch, well then......... ? Scott Bryan ? ------------------- In a message dated 7/13/2012 6:36:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: I don't think it has an official name.? When we visited we looked at references that called it the Fly Ranch Geyser. And it is a drilled well and is perpetual, so the term "geyser" is not very accurate. It is a few miles north of Gerlach on the east side of the road, maybe 100 yards off the road.? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120714/59574dbe/attachment.html> From upperbasin at comcast.net Sun Jul 15 23:06:31 2012 From: upperbasin at comcast.net (Paul Strasser) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:06:31 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand> A question about access at Norris. With Incline and Graceful (I thought Graceful's vent blew apart in the 80s) active we may make a trip to that blessed basin while in the park. I know they re-routed the boardwalks in the back basin, but what about porcelain?? You used to go down the steps through the museum, and I would have a hard time with those. Can you get to the Porcelain Terrace overlook without going on stairs? Paul Strasser -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Lasseter Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:13 PM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 I found myself unexpectedly at Norris today. What was to be a hike never left Norris Geyser Basin, where there was lots of intersting activity. The UGB data reported here is compliments of Kitt Barger. Norris data collected by MA Bellingham, Rocco Paperiello, Clark Murray, and myself. Beehive: 0651 (indicator @ 0636) Grand: 0727 T2Q West Triplet: 0749ie Plume: 0713 Oblong: 0720ns Riverside: 1029 Fountain: 1036ie Whirligig: 1024 d=approx 3 minutes great sound effects! Constant: I saw several, but did not intend to linger there and was not recording times Incline Geyser ie: (this is what grabbed our attention big time at about 0800) Rocco dashed over to verify, then we both relocated from Constant to Incline, hoping for a repeat. Graceful: 1st approx 0800-0820, 2nd 1115 Collapsed Cave geyser: approx 40foot angled eruption during the 2nd Graceful Vixen: minors at 1109 (40 sec, 6-8ft), 1158 (40sec, 8ft), 1249 (75sec, 13-14ft), 1341 (35sec, 8-10ft) There was a black wolf feeding on an elk carcass at the base of the Chocolate pots on my way home. For 2 days in a row now I have seen a bald eagle in the dead tree on the S side of the W entrance rd approx 1 mile W of the old nest across from a convenient pullout. Tomorrow I will be out of the basin. Barbara Lasseter _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/9bde1097/attachment-0001.html> From mabdepot at msn.com Mon Jul 16 04:54:28 2012 From: mabdepot at msn.com (MA Bellingham) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:54:28 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 In-Reply-To: <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand> References: , <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand> Message-ID: The play at Graceful would suggest it was coming from a large (blown out) vent, it was wide bursting action, like a mini-Grand. We all commented that it was more powerful than "graceful". Closed intervals were around 3 hours, and durations were 8, 10 and 12 minutes. I also noted this in my logbook on July 3 with a ?, as I only knew Graceful as a name on a map. The Norris log has other eruptions listed as "large geyser at the base of the hill" beginning about 2 weeks ago. I'll look at the log again and pinpoint when this activity was first seen. There are no changes in accessibility in the museum area, entering Porcelain still involves the museum steps, and the steep asphalt pitch before you reach the boardwalk. Accessibility improvements bypassing the museum (I would use it as a short-cut) would be a great idea. MA MA Bellingham mabepot at msn.com From: upperbasin at comcast.net To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:06:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 A question about access at Norris. With Incline and Graceful (I thought Graceful's vent blew apart in the 80s) active we may make a trip to that blessed basin while in the park. I know they re-routed the boardwalks in the back basin, but what about porcelain?? You used to go down the steps through the museum, and I would have a hard time with those. Can you get to the Porcelain Terrace overlook without going on stairs? Paul Strasser -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Lasseter Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:13 PM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 I found myself unexpectedly at Norris today. What was to be a hike never left Norris Geyser Basin, where there was lots of intersting activity. The UGB data reported here is compliments of Kitt Barger. Norris data collected by MA Bellingham, Rocco Paperiello, Clark Murray, and myself. Beehive: 0651 (indicator @ 0636) Grand: 0727 T2Q West Triplet: 0749ie Plume: 0713 Oblong: 0720ns Riverside: 1029 Fountain: 1036ie Whirligig: 1024 d=approx 3 minutes great sound effects! Constant: I saw several, but did not intend to linger there and was not recording times Incline Geyser ie: (this is what grabbed our attention big time at about 0800) Rocco dashed over to verify, then we both relocated from Constant to Incline, hoping for a repeat. Graceful: 1st approx 0800-0820, 2nd 1115 Collapsed Cave geyser: approx 40foot angled eruption during the 2nd Graceful Vixen: minors at 1109 (40 sec, 6-8ft), 1158 (40sec, 8ft), 1249 (75sec, 13-14ft), 1341 (35sec, 8-10ft) There was a black wolf feeding on an elk carcass at the base of the Chocolate pots on my way home. For 2 days in a row now I have seen a bald eagle in the dead tree on the S side of the W entrance rd approx 1 mile W of the old nest across from a convenient pullout. Tomorrow I will be out of the basin. Barbara Lasseter _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/d97ee3a2/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Jul 16 08:13:16 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Old names Message-ID: <677b1.1aec5d06.3d35898c@aol.com> A couple of weeks ago Mary Beth handed out some neckerchiefs that bore the 1881 Norris map of YNP. It boasts a few curious names/locations. So as much as anything this e-mail is aimed at Lee Whittlesey, who does not have these names in Wonderland Nomenclature... The canyon between (about) 7 Mile Bridge and Madison Junction is labeled as "Third Canyon." I find no "Second Canyon" on the map but have to presume that it is/was the shallow canyon between Gibbon Falls and Madison Junction, this given that what must be Gibbon Falls is shown as "First Canyon Falls." And this then leaves Gibbon Canyon between the falls and Gibbon Meadows as "First Canyon." The map also shows "Johnson Peak." I think this must be our Paintpot Hill. And who was Johnson? Last on this, just the comment that the map shows "geyser" in what must be our area NW of Norris. Apologies to those historians among us who are familiar with this map, but this curious mind wishes to know... Scott Bryan P.S. To MA and others, thanks much for the info about Graceful, Incline, etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/1f5be499/attachment.html> From greinstein at prodigy.net Mon Jul 16 10:22:58 2012 From: greinstein at prodigy.net (Gary Einstein) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:22:58 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 In-Reply-To: <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand> References: <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand> Message-ID: <50044DF2.7000609@prodigy.net> Does the path from Bathtub Spring or Minute Geyser that goes around the building avoid the steps? Gary Einstein On 7/15/2012 11:06 PM, Paul Strasser wrote: > > A question about access at Norris. With Incline and Graceful (I > thought Graceful's vent blew apart in the 80s) active we may make a > trip to that blessed basin while in the park. I know they re-routed > the boardwalks in the back basin, but what about porcelain?? You used > to go down the steps through the museum, and I would have a hard time > with those. Can you get to the Porcelain Terrace overlook without > going on stairs? > > Paul Strasser > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu > [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara > Lasseter > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:13 PM > To: Geyser Observation Reports > Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 > > I found myself unexpectedly at Norris today. What was to be a hike > > never left Norris Geyser Basin, where there was lots of intersting > > activity. The UGB data reported here is compliments of Kitt Barger. > > Norris data collected by MA Bellingham, Rocco Paperiello, Clark > > Murray, and myself. > > Beehive: 0651 (indicator @ 0636) > > Grand: 0727 T2Q > > West Triplet: 0749ie > > Plume: 0713 > > Oblong: 0720ns > > Riverside: 1029 > > Fountain: 1036ie > > Whirligig: 1024 d=approx 3 minutes great sound effects! > > Constant: I saw several, but did not intend to linger there and was > > not recording times > > Incline Geyser ie: (this is what grabbed our attention big time at > > about 0800) Rocco dashed over to verify, then we both relocated from > > Constant to Incline, hoping for a repeat. > > Graceful: 1st approx 0800-0820, 2nd 1115 > > Collapsed Cave geyser: approx 40foot angled eruption during the 2nd > Graceful > > Vixen: minors at 1109 (40 sec, 6-8ft), 1158 (40sec, 8ft), 1249 (75sec, > > 13-14ft), 1341 (35sec, 8-10ft) > > There was a black wolf feeding on an elk carcass at the base of the > > Chocolate pots on my way home. For 2 days in a row now I have seen a > > bald eagle in the dead tree on the S side of the W entrance rd approx > > 1 mile W of the old nest across from a convenient pullout. > > Tomorrow I will be out of the basin. > > Barbara Lasseter > > _______________________________________________ > > Geysers mailing list > > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/043bbd0a/attachment-0001.html> From mabdepot at msn.com Mon Jul 16 12:54:45 2012 From: mabdepot at msn.com (MA Bellingham) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:54:45 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Norris Access In-Reply-To: References: , , <549456BC5B6944B3B6EDB58520C0291C@grand>, Message-ID: I have been reminded by helpful friends that you can take the "Bathtub Bypass" to avoid the steps near the museum. The grade once you gain the asphalt at the junction and need to go Up to the boardwalk is steep, but it's short. I am not sure how the rest of the grade is, or how rough the earthen walk is, but it would be the shortest route to Porcelain without steps. I just don't take that much since we don't have the view into Bathtub anymore. (Thinking about the good old days...) Also note that I typed my email address wrong in the previous reply to the list. Thanks, MA M.A. Bellingham mabdepot at msn.com From: mabdepot at msn.com To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:54:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 The play at Graceful would suggest it was coming from a large (blown out) vent, it was wide bursting action, like a mini-Grand. We all commented that it was more powerful than "graceful". Closed intervals were around 3 hours, and durations were 8, 10 and 12 minutes. I also noted this in my logbook on July 3 with a ?, as I only knew Graceful as a name on a map. The Norris log has other eruptions listed as "large geyser at the base of the hill" beginning about 2 weeks ago. I'll look at the log again and pinpoint when this activity was first seen. There are no changes in accessibility in the museum area, entering Porcelain still involves the museum steps, and the steep asphalt pitch before you reach the boardwalk. Accessibility improvements bypassing the museum (I would use it as a short-cut) would be a great idea. MA MA Bellingham mabepot at msn.com From: upperbasin at comcast.net To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:06:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 A question about access at Norris. With Incline and Graceful (I thought Graceful's vent blew apart in the 80s) active we may make a trip to that blessed basin while in the park. I know they re-routed the boardwalks in the back basin, but what about porcelain?? You used to go down the steps through the museum, and I would have a hard time with those. Can you get to the Porcelain Terrace overlook without going on stairs? Paul Strasser -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Lasseter Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:13 PM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Sunday, July 15, 2012 I found myself unexpectedly at Norris today. What was to be a hike never left Norris Geyser Basin, where there was lots of intersting activity. The UGB data reported here is compliments of Kitt Barger. Norris data collected by MA Bellingham, Rocco Paperiello, Clark Murray, and myself. Beehive: 0651 (indicator @ 0636) Grand: 0727 T2Q West Triplet: 0749ie Plume: 0713 Oblong: 0720ns Riverside: 1029 Fountain: 1036ie Whirligig: 1024 d=approx 3 minutes great sound effects! Constant: I saw several, but did not intend to linger there and was not recording times Incline Geyser ie: (this is what grabbed our attention big time at about 0800) Rocco dashed over to verify, then we both relocated from Constant to Incline, hoping for a repeat. Graceful: 1st approx 0800-0820, 2nd 1115 Collapsed Cave geyser: approx 40foot angled eruption during the 2nd Graceful Vixen: minors at 1109 (40 sec, 6-8ft), 1158 (40sec, 8ft), 1249 (75sec, 13-14ft), 1341 (35sec, 8-10ft) There was a black wolf feeding on an elk carcass at the base of the Chocolate pots on my way home. For 2 days in a row now I have seen a bald eagle in the dead tree on the S side of the W entrance rd approx 1 mile W of the old nest across from a convenient pullout. Tomorrow I will be out of the basin. Barbara Lasseter _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/b8fb5ab3/attachment.html> From meechg at verizon.net Mon Jul 16 15:32:20 2012 From: meechg at verizon.net (Graham Meech) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:32:20 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Access to Norris Message-ID: <007601cd63a2$dd40ddc0$97c29940$@net> I pushed my mom round Norris 10 days ago using a wheelchair rented from the OF Clinic. If you go toward Steamboat you can loop round the Museum on a gravel trail. Same elevation change as going through the museum but an easy push or steady walk. The path to the Porcelain Basin overlook near Incline is pretty level although the gravel is a little soft (I had to pull the wheelchair backwards for a bit to prevent the front wheels digging in). Other than that, it's a pretty easy run. The boardwalk down to Constant is fine but the push back is rather steep. I also pushed my mom down the long steady slope to the back basin and round the loop. There are a few drops from the boardwalk to the ground that she got up for since I was trying to avoid dumping her out of the chair .. too many times. There's also a steep rise near Green Dragon Spring where a couple of people helped pull the wheelchair up the rise and a fair number of roots and rocks to avoid. The new boardwalk is good for the uphill push, although a moving walkway would be nicer :) Graham Meech -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/1fd7e18b/attachment.html> From npstora at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 14:39:25 2012 From: npstora at gmail.com (Denise Herman) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:39:25 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Norris Accessibility Message-ID: There is an accessible route into Porcelain Basin. Head toward Steamboat Geyser and take your first right. Follow this trail into Porcelain Basin; it will deposit you at the Porcelain Basin Overlook. It is longer, but has no steps. Denise Herman From taigabridge at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 14:08:27 2012 From: taigabridge at hotmail.com (Gordon Bower) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:08:27 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 Message-ID: I wound up spending most my time on the Firehole Lake Loop and at Black Sand. Apparently all the gazers were having fun at Norris rather than in their usual haunts (though I did hear two voices on the radio in the Upper Basin.) Those of you who worked with the interval vs. duration formula for Great Fountain, how long of an eruption does it take to cause a 16+ hour interval? I saw the Saturday afternoon eruption with Lynn. Two not-very-blue-but-loud-when-they-popped bubbles a few seconds apart in the first series, otherwise quite an anemic eruption, so I was not surprised to see an electronic time of 0320 posted Sunday morning. The prediction on the sign was for 1520. I came back around 1300 Sunday, and didn't see water. Still no water at 1430. Just below overflow at 1600. Back again expecting to see an eruption shortly at 1700 - and no water in the pool. It rose and fell AGAIN, nearly out of sight. It finally got its act together and overflowed at 1810, rising very briskly to pour out water in all directions within just a few minutes. Big boil at 1927 followed by an 8-minute pause. A dozen or so people actually got there at the beginning of the window and waited the full six hours. Many more came and went and came back, as I did. A ranger stopped by after 4, but, inexplicably, left without changing the "1:20 to 5:20" on the sign even though it was not overflowing so she could easily have changed it to 5:30-7:30 (or whatever) at 4. At first I was speculating about the possibility that the electronic number has been misinterpreted. But I think it really WAS a 16-hour interval: it was breezy and mostly sunny but not terribly hot (mid-70s), but a fairly large area on the west side of the outer terraces dried out. Post-wild-phase it takes close to 24 hours for the front side to also dry out, and I can't remember any other time when I have seen the back side dry. The people sitting there from 1 to 4 reported seeing at least six White Domes and I saw three myself after that even though most my attention was directed at Botryoidal and A-0. Botryoidal was in a variable mood, 3m50s to 5m50s, and A-0 also ranged from 26 to 30 minutes. I saw 3 eruptions of Logbridge in 7 hours observation time (1706 and 2234 Saturday, 1409 Sunday) but don't know if that was a closed interval or not Saturday; I never had a stretch of more than an hour and a half without some interruption. A highlight Sunday evening was a coyote coming down from the hills behind White Creek and getting caught within 50 feet or so of Botryoidal when an eruption happened. The startled animal took off running straight toward the road to the delight of tourists packing up after Great Fountain, then slowed to a lope, crossed the road near the culvert, and followed the road toward Firehole Pool. "Spire" eluded me all weekend. I never saw anything out of Gemini either, but the water level in Pebble varied by almost a foot from one trip around the loop to the next. Pink Cone was chuffing steam Sunday morning which I presume means it erupted before sunrise and finished some time before I got in to the park. Lemon Spring was full Sunday morning, down a foot at 1300, and continued to slowly fill through the afternoon. On the people-watching front, it is amazing where people find to park their cars. At Black Sand I saw three or four cars angle-parked on the north side of the lot -- the first car parallel to and almost touching the boardwalk to Opalescent Pool -- on two occasions. At a time when the official spots were full, but the more obvious parallel parking along the perimeter of the lot by Whistle and on the exit road were not full. Admittedly this is "old news" now, but despite it having been a hot and dry summer until this past week, the Firehole Canyon swimming area was closed for all of 2011, and is still closed at present. The signage indicates it is closed anytime the flow is above 300 cfs. Last August I was checking the numbers online and watching them come down, 315, 312, 310, 307... and then suddenly leap up 10 or 15 cfs at 7:00 in the morning one day in early September, as if someone had 'kicked the gaging station.' The data for last fall have since been revised upward by 10 or 15 cfs to take out the hiccup so there is no discontinuity in the graph. I would like to think it was a routine recalibration. My suspicious side wondered if an adjustment was deemed necessary to avoid reopening the swimming area... supposedly the median discharge is low enough that if this policy remains in place, the swimming area should be open about 3 years out of 4 in July and August. But I have to worry that the powers that be are hoping to keep it closed long enough that they are able to close it permanently. I don't remember seeing the streamflow policy posted before 2011. If the policy was the same, the swimming area should have opened about July 1st in 2010 and July 15th in 2009. Does anyone happen to know if it did? Personally I think it is a misguided decision to close Firehole Canyon at 300 cfs instead of 350 or 400 or some other high number such that it is closed only during the spring runoff peak. One advantage of having that public swimming area is that in years past I very rarely saw anybody swimming anywhere ELSE. People are now going swimming in at least a half dozen different places. Some of these are harmless and logical -- the 'beach' on the Gibbon River in walking distance of Madison Junction is obvious enough -- but Saturday there were cars in the first pullout north of Firehole Canyon Drive and a dozen people were in the water. The bend right above Firehole Cascade, where the road used to flood in high-water years before it was rebuilt in the 90s. I suppose the water gets shallow enough that any non-toddler could regain his footing before being swept over the top... but really, swimming within sight of the top of a waterfall?? How is closing the largest and safest place to swim, and pushing people into the marginal locations, a good safety policy? GRB From taigabridge at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 16:00:50 2012 From: taigabridge at hotmail.com (Gordon Bower) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:00:50 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Old names In-Reply-To: <677b1.1aec5d06.3d35898c@aol.com> References: <677b1.1aec5d06.3d35898c@aol.com> Message-ID: ? > The canyon between (about) Mile Bridge and Madison Junction is > labeled as "Third Canyon." > I find no "Second Canyon" on the map... The Yellowstone River canyons were named from the bottom up (Yankee Jim, Black, and Grand were 2nd 3rd and 4th, in that order.) I would suggest that the west entrance road is the 3rd canyon of the Madison (Bear Trap and Hebgen Lake being the 1st and 2nd), while Gibbon Falls is the mouth of the 1st canyon of the Gibbon. GRB From wolveslax65 at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 16:48:33 2012 From: wolveslax65 at comcast.net (Will Boekel) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:48:33 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Text message notification system status and feedback Message-ID: <2C0C3E416C9F4B9099717B30A91A7BD6@WillPC> Hello everybody, I hope everyone is liking the new text/email notification system! There are as of July 16 @ 17:46: 29 people in the Beehive group, 30 in the rare geyser group, and 26 in the wildlife group. Also the current camera operators that are sending the texts are Graham, Vw, Kcmule, Kevin L. I am currently acting as a backup sender if the others are busy. So if you are a camera operator and want to be added to the senders list please email me and ill set you up. Now for the feedback part. I would love to hear how the system is working for everybody. If it is not working well for you please contact me so I can fix the problems. Also some questions have been brought up for the rules on sending messages regarding the rare geysers group. The main questions are what constitutes a rare geyser and does it have to be visible on the webcam to send a message. Also depending on the answers to the previous questions, should more message groups be set up. So if others can post up their comments here on the listserve or contact me with their ideas and comments that would be great so we can make the system as perfect as possible. Thanks, Will Boekel PS: Here is the link to register your phones/emails again if you need it. https://www.rainedout.net/team_page.php?a=bc3eeb1ac1ee14fb6c8b -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/025ab329/attachment.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 17:40:37 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:40:37 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On July 16, Gordon Bower asked: > Those of you who worked with the interval vs. duration formula for Great Fountain, how long of an eruption does it take to cause a 16+ hour interval? On Monday May 28 this year, Great Fountain had an eruption with a duration of 94 minutes (seven bursts although the seventh burst lasted only four minutes). The succeeding interval was 16h02m. (See my report to the listserv for May 28, 2012.) I think the last time I published a prediction model based on number of bursts was in the October 2007 issue of The Sput. Although the sample size for 2012 is much smaller than it was in 2007, the model seemed to about the same as it was in 2007, except that the 2012 model includes a 14-hour prediction for a weak 6th burst and a 16 hour prediction for a 7th burst. 2007 2012 ( smaller sample size) 3 burst eruption = 10 hours 9 to 10 hours weak 4th burst = 11 hours 11 hours strong 4th burst, weak 5th burst = 12 hours 12 hours 5th burst = 13 hours 13 hours weak 6th burst 14 hours (strong) 6th burst = 15 hours 15 hours strong 7th burst 16 hours Weak bursts are ones that last only 3-4 minutes, and usually have longer pauses between the individual bursts in that series. Strong bursts usually last 6-7 minutes with fewer pauses between the individual jets. Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/f47645c5/attachment.html> From udo.freund at lmco.com Mon Jul 16 06:32:19 2012 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:32:19 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] EXTERNAL: Radio Broadcasting In-Reply-To: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> References: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> Message-ID: Will, Don?t let the naysayers get you down. They?re too full of themselves. FRS transmissions are on public airwaves. If someone doesn?t like speaking in public STFU. If people don?t want to listen they can certainly turn it off. Nobody is forcing anyone to do either. FRS calls would help the cam operators zoom to whatever geyser is imminent and in turn those who watch the cam would benefit. Thanks, Udo Freund "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." --Will Rogers From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Will Boekel Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:52 PM To: Listserve Subject: EXTERNAL: [Geysers] Radio Broadcasting Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers about posting the idea of broadcasting the FRS calls. I am relatively new to the gazing community and I had no Idea that there was so much opposition to this idea. I am and will not work on the project because I simply don?t have the time and it sounds like the idea is not being taken as being a good one. So ill leave it at that. Just an idea. Thanks, Will Boekel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/7d1a8cb6/attachment.html> From dmonteit at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 22:55:48 2012 From: dmonteit at comcast.net (David Monteith) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:55:48 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] FRS rebroadcast Message-ID: <1342504548.17244.29.camel@dhcppc0> All: I have a few concerns about broadcasting the FRS traffic but possibly not what you are expecting. I'm wondering how the FRS signal would be relayed? First, FCC regulations specifically prohibit connecting FRS radios to a "public switched network" -- read telephone system. Second, the spirit of the FCC regulations concerning FRS radios is that the FRS frequency bands are for public use over short distances. Connecting the radios to anything designed to extend the range of the radios is prohibited as is modifying the radios to enhance their range. As if the first two weren't problematic enough, I have one last problem. Where would the FRS radios be connected to a system to relay the signal? Given their short range, possibilities are limited and I doubt the park service or concessionaires would be willing to house such a venture, especially if the FCC regulations are a concern. In short, while I find the idea intriguing, I don't think that the regulations allow for the rebroadcast of the FRS traffic. Dave PS FCC regulations concerning FRS radios have been conveniently compiled at From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:52:03 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:52:03 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Tuesday, July 17, 2012 Message-ID: The forecast rain did not interfere with the majority of the day. People numbers, if not gazer numbers, remain up. I have had limited animal sightings coming and going recently, so road jams are infrequent. On the other hand, for the same reason, a single bison or elk can collect dozens of cars. Grand: 0530e, 1048 T1Q West Triplet: 0933ie (ending @ 0941) Plume: 0638, ..., 0829, 0925, ..., 1115ie, 1205, 1256 Lion: ended with the 0607 eruption Little Cub ir @ 0842, 0917, 1141, 1219, 1255 Depression: 0510ie, 0946, 1342 Aurum: 0935 Castle: 2nd minor @ 0350e, 1319ns major Oblong: 1023 Riverside: 1005 Daisy: 0937, 1217 Grotto: 0525ie marathon, ending @ 1158 Great Fountan: 0625ie [7/16 1813e] N Goggles minors:_____, 0905, 0942 Atomizer major: 0819ie Barbara Lasseter From bpnjensen at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 08:02:10 2012 From: bpnjensen at yahoo.com (Bruce Jensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] FRS rebroadcast In-Reply-To: <1342504548.17244.29.camel@dhcppc0> References: <1342504548.17244.29.camel@dhcppc0> Message-ID: <1342537330.11884.YahooMailNeo@web112608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ?? ________________________________ From: David Monteith To: Geyser Reports Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:55 PM Subject: [Geysers] FRS rebroadcast >>All: I have a few concerns about broadcasting the FRS traffic but possibly not what you are expecting.? I'm wondering how the FRS signal would be relayed?? First, FCC regulations specifically prohibit connecting FRS radios to a "public switched network" -- read telephone system.? Second, the spirit of the FCC regulations concerning FRS radios is that the FRS frequency bands are for public use over short distances.? Connecting the radios to anything designed to extend the range of the radios is prohibited as is modifying the radios to enhance their range.? As if the first two weren't problematic enough, I have one last problem.? Where would the FRS radios be connected to a system to relay the signal?? Given their short range, possibilities are limited and I doubt the park service or concessionaires would be willing to house such a venture, especially if the FCC regulations are a concern.? In short, while I find the idea intriguing, I don't think that the regulations allow for the rebroadcast of the FRS traffic. Dave PS? FCC regulations concerning FRS radios have been conveniently compiled at http://home.provide.net/~prsg/frsrules.htm#%22192%22?<< *********************** Thanks, Dave. Technically, connecting the VICs receiving radio's speaker output to the video stream?input would be one way to make the connection so that calls could be heard via internet.? I have no idea how easy or convenient this would be - probably not very - but at least it's possible.? The other red flags you raise, however, are far more important.??I doubt if the FRS?regs could be twisted enough in their current form to legally acommodate this use, either by a private person or a public entity such as the NPS.? IOW, it just ain't legal, and to ask a government agency to jump on board with an idea that contradicts federal law is asking an awful lot.? The regs regarding GMRS radios, which use some of the same channels but require a simple-to-obtain user license, provide no additional latitude in this regard either. Unless the VIC is willing and able to get special permission from the FCC to implement this idea, it is likely not viable. ? Bruce Jensen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120717/3188d42e/attachment.html> From caros at xmission.com Mon Jul 16 21:01:46 2012 From: caros at xmission.com (Karen Webb) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:01:46 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5004E3AA.7090603@xmission.com> Gotta go with Gordon on the swimming policy. Since we had to trek in from West, for the entire week that included 4th of July, we found people swimming in (and apparently returning to---looked like a few large family reunions) all sorts of odd places, including off the little spit of land as you go into the double-S curve at the foot of the hill that starts just after 7 Mile Bridge. The water wasn't deep, but that's a place you know larger wildlife congregate, and it's getting a little close to what's supposed to be the trumpeter breeding habitat (haven't seen a swan there in ages). Karen Webb On 7/16/2012 3:08 PM, Gordon Bower wrote: > > I wound up spending most my time on the Firehole Lake Loop and at Black Sand. Apparently all the gazers were having fun at Norris rather than in their usual haunts (though I did hear two voices on the radio in the Upper Basin.) > > Those of you who worked with the interval vs. duration formula for Great Fountain, how long of an eruption does it take to cause a 16+ hour interval? > > I saw the Saturday afternoon eruption with Lynn. Two not-very-blue-but-loud-when-they-popped bubbles a few seconds apart in the first series, otherwise quite an anemic eruption, so I was not surprised to see an electronic time of 0320 posted Sunday morning. The prediction on the sign was for 1520. > > I came back around 1300 Sunday, and didn't see water. Still no water at 1430. Just below overflow at 1600. Back again expecting to see an eruption shortly at 1700 - and no water in the pool. It rose and fell AGAIN, nearly out of sight. It finally got its act together and overflowed at 1810, rising very briskly to pour out water in all directions within just a few minutes. Big boil at 1927 followed by an 8-minute pause. > > A dozen or so people actually got there at the beginning of the window and waited the full six hours. Many more came and went and came back, as I did. A ranger stopped by after 4, but, inexplicably, left without changing the "1:20 to 5:20" on the sign even though it was not overflowing so she could easily have changed it to 5:30-7:30 (or whatever) at 4. At first I was speculating about the possibility that the electronic number has been misinterpreted. But I think it really WAS a 16-hour interval: it was breezy and mostly sunny but not terribly hot (mid-70s), but a fairly large area on the west side of the outer terraces dried out. Post-wild-phase it takes close to 24 hours for the front side to also dry out, and I can't remember any other time when I have seen the back side dry. > > The people sitting there from 1 to 4 reported seeing at least six White Domes and I saw three myself after that even though most my attention was directed at Botryoidal and A-0. Botryoidal was in a variable mood, 3m50s to 5m50s, and A-0 also ranged from 26 to 30 minutes. I saw 3 eruptions of Logbridge in 7 hours observation time (1706 and 2234 Saturday, 1409 Sunday) but don't know if that was a closed interval or not Saturday; I never had a stretch of more than an hour and a half without some interruption. > > A highlight Sunday evening was a coyote coming down from the hills behind White Creek and getting caught within 50 feet or so of Botryoidal when an eruption happened. The startled animal took off running straight toward the road to the delight of tourists packing up after Great Fountain, then slowed to a lope, crossed the road near the culvert, and followed the road toward Firehole Pool. > > "Spire" eluded me all weekend. I never saw anything out of Gemini either, but the water level in Pebble varied by almost a foot from one trip around the loop to the next. Pink Cone was chuffing steam Sunday morning which I presume means it erupted before sunrise and finished some time before I got in to the park. > Lemon Spring was full Sunday morning, down a foot at 1300, and continued to slowly fill through the afternoon. > > On the people-watching front, it is amazing where people find to park their cars. At Black Sand I saw three or four cars angle-parked on the north side of the lot -- the first car parallel to and almost touching the boardwalk to Opalescent Pool -- on two occasions. At a time when the official spots were full, but the more obvious parallel parking along the perimeter of the lot by Whistle and on the exit road were not full. > > Admittedly this is "old news" now, but despite it having been a hot and dry summer until this past week, the Firehole Canyon swimming area was closed for all of 2011, and is still closed at present. The signage indicates it is closed anytime the flow is above 300 cfs. Last August I was checking the numbers online and watching them come down, 315, 312, 310, 307... and then suddenly leap up 10 or 15 cfs at 7:00 in the morning one day in early September, as if someone had 'kicked the gaging station.' The data for last fall have since been revised upward by 10 or 15 cfs to take out the hiccup so there is no discontinuity in the graph. I would like to think it was a routine recalibration. My suspicious side wondered if an adjustment was deemed necessary to avoid reopening the swimming area... supposedly the median discharge is low enough that if this policy remains in place, the swimming area should be open about 3 years out of 4 in July and August. But I have to worry that the po > wers that be are hoping to keep it closed long enough that they are able to close it permanently. > > I don't remember seeing the streamflow policy posted before 2011. If the policy was the same, the swimming area should have opened about July 1st in 2010 and July 15th in 2009. Does anyone happen to know if it did? > > Personally I think it is a misguided decision to close Firehole Canyon at 300 cfs instead of 350 or 400 or some other high number such that it is closed only during the spring runoff peak. One advantage of having that public swimming area is that in years past I very rarely saw anybody swimming anywhere ELSE. People are now going swimming in at least a half dozen different places. Some of these are harmless and logical -- the 'beach' on the Gibbon River in walking distance of Madison Junction is obvious enough -- but Saturday there were cars in the first pullout north of Firehole Canyon Drive and a dozen people were in the water. The bend right above Firehole Cascade, where the road used to flood in high-water years before it was rebuilt in the 90s. I suppose the water gets shallow enough that any non-toddler could regain his footing before being swept over the top... but really, swimming within sight of the top of a waterfall?? How is closing the largest and safest place to > swim, and pushing people into the marginal locations, a good safety policy? > > GRB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/98b7ba9c/attachment.html> From Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov Tue Jul 17 09:11:42 2012 From: Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov (Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:11:42 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Old name question by Scott Bryan---response by Lee Whittlesey In-Reply-To: <677b1.1aec5d06.3d35898c@aol.com> Message-ID: For Scott Bryan and others interested in the P.W. Norris maps, yes, these fine old maps (1877, 1878, 1879, 1880, and 1881) when used alongside Mr. Norris's five annual reports tell us a lot about Superintendent Norris's explorations and about the man himself. They are worthy of extended study for anyone who loves Yellowstone and who has an interest in its history. I'd be happy to discuss them with anyone who wants to give me a call on the telephone, but I can only sit here and type for so long. For a biography of Norris, see my book STORYTELLING IN YELLOWSTONE, chapter eight, and I've cited other biographies of him there as well (p. 308, note 2). So here are some short answers to your questions. Here's the Paintpot Hill entry from WONDERLAND NOMENCLATURE. It clears up your question about Mr. Johnson: *PAINTPOT HILL---A hill, elevation 8055 feet, located at the north end of Gibbon Canyon. Paintpot Hill was named "Johnson Peak'" in 1879 by park superintendent P.W. Norris for N.D. Johnson, the man Norris had requested to be U.S. Commissioner for Wyoming Territory and who Norris hoped would help control crime in the Park. [P.W. Norris, RofS, 1879, map.] The present name was given in 1885 by members of the Hague parties of the USGS because of the existence of the Artists' Paintpots thermal springs located at the north base of Paintpot Hill. Early Park visitors thought that various bubbling mud springs in Yellowstone resembled paint and hence called them "paintpots". [Hiram M. Chittenden, The Yellowstone National Park, 1895, p. 305.] Aubrey Haines briefly mentions N.D. Johnson in his YELLOWSTONE STORY, II, p. 64. The names "Third Canyon" and "First Canyon" (of the Gibbon River) were Norris's names of convenience that he formulated during an era when few other names were available. As we know, he gave LOTS of names to Yellowstone. But in giving these three names to the Gibbon-Madison canyon, Norris was inconsistent because he had already given the name Gibbon Canyon in 1877 and he also sometimes referred to the upper end of it as "Upper Canyon." Thus, I was faced with trying to make sense of his inconsistencies. The name Gibbon Canyon is official by virtue of a USBGN DECISION, so it is the name that we are obligated to use. The same goes for Madison Canyon, which is official by virtue of inclusion on (official) maps. With those two names decided, I could only abandon these first-second-third-canyon names as obsolete names, and indeed the name "Third Canyon of the Madison" appears in my obsolete names appendix in Wonderland Nomenclature. Somehow, during my cataloging, I omitted "First Canyon" (of the Gibbon), "Second Canyon" (of the Gibbon), and "Upper Canyon" (of the Gibbon) but because of your inquiry, Scott, I've now added them to the obsolete names appendix for the next edition of Wonderland Nomenclature (we'll see whether I live long enough to write it!). The active name Sleepy Hollow long ago supplanted Norris's old name of "Second Canyon" (of the Gibbon). For you completeness addicts, here is the entry from WN on Gibbon Canyon: GIBBON CANYON---The canyon of Gibbon River, extending north from Gibbon Falls for about six miles on Gibbon River. The name was in use very early. Superintendent P.W. Norris used it as early as 1877, and he explored it in 1878. In these early days the tourist route through this canyon ran mainly on the east side of the river although it forded the stream back and forth in what were considered some dangerous crossings. One well known ford was near Lone Tree Rock. Norris sometimes referred to the south end of the Gibbon Canyon as "First Canyon" and the north end as "Upper Canyon".[P.W. Norris, RofS, 1877, p. 844; 1880, p. 4, map.] I repeat: I love to discuss place-names stuff with anyone who is interested in it, so I invite anyone with such an interest to call me anytime. A big part of what I do is to answer historical questions. Lee Whittlesey office (307) 344-2261 Sent by: edu> cc Subject 07/16/2012 09:13 [Geysers] Old names AM Please respond to Geyser Observation Reports A couple of weeks ago Mary Beth handed out some neckerchiefs that bore the 1881 Norris map of YNP. It boasts a few curious names/locations. So as much as anything this e-mail is aimed at Lee Whittlesey, who does not have these names in Wonderland Nomenclature... The canyon between (about) 7 Mile Bridge and Madison Junction is labeled as "Third Canyon." I find no "Second Canyon" on the map but have to presume that it is/was the shallow canyon between Gibbon Falls and Madison Junction, this given that what must be Gibbon Falls is shown as "First Canyon Falls." And this then leaves Gibbon Canyon between the falls and Gibbon Meadows as "First Canyon." The map also shows "Johnson Peak." I think this must be our Paintpot Hill. And who was Johnson? Last on this, just the comment that the map shows "geyser" in what must be our area NW of Norris. Apologies to those historians among us who are familiar with this map, but this curious mind wishes to know... Scott Bryan P.S. To MA and others, thanks much for the info about Graceful, Incline, etc._______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu From Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov Tue Jul 17 09:12:34 2012 From: Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov (Lee_Whittlesey at nps.gov) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:12:34 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Old names---Lee's reply to Gordon Bower In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gordon---Good surmises and I too have thought about them. At this point, I cannot conclusively say that you are wrong. However, my theory agrees with Scott's that P.W. Norris was using the names "First Canyon" for today's Gibbon Canyon. "Second Canyon" for today's Sleepy Hollow area, and "Third Canyon" for today's Madison Canyon. This was during a time when the names of Firehole River and Gibbon River were often called "South Fork of the Madison" and "North Fork of the Madison" respectively, even though Hayden had given the name Gibbon River in 1872 and the name Firehole River had been so-called even earlier. Regardless, many observers continued to refer to the F and G as "South" and "North" forks of the Madison. I suspect that a dedicated hammering of all five of Norris's annual reports with this question clearly in mind might throw light on the subject, but I do not have time to do it myself right now. I've read those reports over and over, but not with that precise question in mind...at least that I can remember. Lee Whittlesey Gordon Bower To Sent by: Subject Re: [Geysers] Old names 07/16/2012 05:00 PM Please respond to Geyser Observation Reports > The canyon between (about) Mile Bridge and Madison Junction is > labeled as "Third Canyon." > I find no "Second Canyon" on the map... The Yellowstone River canyons were named from the bottom up (Yankee Jim, Black, and Grand were 2nd 3rd and 4th, in that order.) I would suggest that the west entrance road is the 3rd canyon of the Madison (Bear Trap and Hebgen Lake being the 1st and 2nd), while Gibbon Falls is the mouth of the 1st canyon of the Gibbon. GRB _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Jul 16 19:35:24 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 Message-ID: <9adf9.4607e718.3d36296c@aol.com> Gordon only saw a dozen or so people swimming there? More than once there were easily two dozen vehicles along that area with correspondingly 40-50-60 people in the water. I saw that more than once, and one time the resulting traffic back-up was worse than in any animal jam I encountered this year. But "How is closing the largest and safest place to swim... good safety policy." Hey, look around at all that's happening in the park -- it's the NPS. I believe that the Peter Principle fully applies to the existing NPS hierarchy. Many sit on their duffs in Mammoth and have no real idea as to what is actually going on out in the Park. (Unfortunately, this does not apply only to Yellowstone. Really, it increasingly is the modern NPS.) Sorry, kinda off geyser topic but responding to a list item. Scott Bryan In a message dated 7/16/2012 6:41:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, taigabridge at hotmail.com writes: Saturday there were cars in the first pullout north of Firehole Canyon Drive and a dozen people were in the water. The bend right above Firehole Cascade, where the road used to flood in high-water years before it was rebuilt in the 90s. I suppose the water gets shallow enough that any non-toddler could regain his footing before being swept over the top... but really, swimming within sight of the top of a waterfall?? How is closing the largest and safest place to swim, and pushing people into the marginal locations, a good safety policy? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/f85119d4/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Jul 16 19:38:14 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Old names Message-ID: <9af39.47caabd1.3d362a16@aol.com> Skuze, but how can Bear Trap and Hebgen be 1 and 2, West Entrance 3, but them Gibbon Falls back to canyon 1? Scott In a message dated 7/16/2012 6:41:44 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, taigabridge at hotmail.com writes: I would suggest that the west entrance road is the 3rd canyon of the Madison (Bear Trap and Hebgen Lake being the 1st and 2nd), while Gibbon Falls is the mouth of the 1st canyon of the Gibbon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/d567d7e8/attachment.html> From udo.freund at lmco.com Tue Jul 17 08:37:34 2012 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:37:34 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] EXTERNAL: FRS rebroadcast In-Reply-To: <1342504548.17244.29.camel@dhcppc0> References: <1342504548.17244.29.camel@dhcppc0> Message-ID: In the greater picture this is so miniscule that I doubt anyone outside the gazer community would notice. The FCC would not act unless an official complaint is filed. I would hope no gazer would complain. Let's give it a chance to see if/how it works and if it's a benefit or a curse first. If a complaint is filed I assume the FCC would send a letter asking to cease and desist before taking other action. Even if re-broadcasts continued after that they might ignore such a small time violation since its expensive to prosecute. It's like speeding on the freeway - going five miles over the limit is mostly ignored. I plead the fifth amendment. Thanks, Udo Freund "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." --Will Rogers -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of David Monteith Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:56 PM To: Geyser Reports Subject: EXTERNAL: [Geysers] FRS rebroadcast All: I have a few concerns about broadcasting the FRS traffic but possibly not what you are expecting. I'm wondering how the FRS signal would be relayed? First, FCC regulations specifically prohibit connecting FRS radios to a "public switched network" -- read telephone system. Second, the spirit of the FCC regulations concerning FRS radios is that the FRS frequency bands are for public use over short distances. Connecting the radios to anything designed to extend the range of the radios is prohibited as is modifying the radios to enhance their range. As if the first two weren't problematic enough, I have one last problem. Where would the FRS radios be connected to a system to relay the signal? Given their short range, possibilities are limited and I doubt the park service or concessionaires would be willing to house such a venture, especially if the FCC regulations are a concern. In short, while I find the idea intriguing, I don't think that the regulations allow for the rebroadcast of the FRS traffic. Dave PS FCC regulations concerning FRS radios have been conveniently compiled at _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120717/68d22409/attachment.html> From upperbasin at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 20:07:47 2012 From: upperbasin at comcast.net (Paul Strasser) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:07:47 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] EXTERNAL: Radio Broadcasting In-Reply-To: References: <99643FE272484455982359F4FC8F7285@WillPC> Message-ID: <0A2155D0BDF84EB883EDE9D1B5739B3D@grand> The whole idea seemed odd to me, because the FCC regs about FRS transmissions are pretty specific. Here is what I found after a few minutes s googling,. From the FCC regs: ? 95.194 (FRS Rule 4) FRS units. (c) You may not attach any antenna, power amplifier, or other apparatus to an FRS unit that has not been FCC certified as part of that FRS unit. There are no exceptions to this rule and attaching any such apparatus to a FRS unit cancels the FCC certification and voids everyone's authority to operate the unit in the FRS. No matter how you put it, we world be using an external apparatus to rebroadcast the FRS signals;. Paul Strasser _____ From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Freund, Udo Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:32 AM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: Re: [Geysers] EXTERNAL: Radio Broadcasting Will, Don?t let the naysayers get you down. They?re too full of themselves. FRS transmissions are on public airwaves. If someone doesn?t like speaking in public STFU. If people don?t want to listen they can certainly turn it off. Nobody is forcing anyone to do either. FRS calls would help the cam operators zoom to whatever geyser is imminent and in turn those who watch the cam would benefit. Thanks, Udo Freund "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." --Will Rogers From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Will Boekel Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:52 PM To: Listserve Subject: EXTERNAL: [Geysers] Radio Broadcasting Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers about posting the idea of broadcasting the FRS calls. I am relatively new to the gazing community and I had no Idea that there was so much opposition to this idea. I am and will not work on the project because I simply don?t have the time and it sounds like the idea is not being taken as being a good one. So ill leave it at that. Just an idea. Thanks, Will Boekel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/c841c279/attachment-0001.html> From yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 20:55:38 2012 From: yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com (Karen Low) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1342497338.96951.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There was a drowning at Firehole Canyon swimming area the summer before last. ?She was 22. ?This is what prompted NPS to set the new lower flow limit for opening the swimming area. Karen Low ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Bower To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Cc: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:08 PM Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 14-15 Jul 12 I wound up spending most my time on the Firehole Lake Loop and at Black Sand. Apparently all the gazers were having fun at Norris rather than in their usual haunts (though I did hear two voices on the radio in the Upper Basin.) Those of you who worked with the interval vs. duration formula for Great Fountain, how long of an eruption does it take to cause a 16+ hour interval? I saw the Saturday afternoon eruption with Lynn. Two not-very-blue-but-loud-when-they-popped bubbles a few seconds apart in the first series, otherwise quite an anemic eruption, so I was not surprised to see an electronic time of 0320 posted Sunday morning. The prediction on the sign was for 1520. I came back around 1300 Sunday, and didn't see water. Still no water at 1430. Just below overflow at 1600. Back again expecting to see an eruption shortly at 1700 - and no water in the pool. It rose and fell AGAIN, nearly out of sight. It finally got its act together and overflowed at 1810, rising very briskly to pour out water in all directions within just a few minutes. Big boil at 1927 followed by an 8-minute pause. A dozen or so people actually got there at the beginning of the window and waited the full six hours. Many more came and went and came back, as I did. A ranger stopped by after 4, but, inexplicably, left without changing the "1:20 to 5:20" on the sign even though it was not overflowing so she could easily have changed it to 5:30-7:30 (or whatever) at 4. At first I was speculating about the possibility that the electronic number has been misinterpreted. But I think it really WAS a 16-hour interval: it was breezy and mostly sunny but not terribly hot (mid-70s), but a fairly large area on the west side of the outer terraces dried out. Post-wild-phase it takes close to 24 hours for the front side to also dry out, and I can't remember any other time when I have seen the back side dry. The people sitting there from 1 to 4 reported seeing at least six White Domes and I saw three myself after that even though most my attention was directed at Botryoidal and A-0. Botryoidal was in a variable mood, 3m50s to 5m50s, and A-0 also ranged from 26 to 30 minutes. I saw 3 eruptions of Logbridge in 7 hours observation time (1706 and 2234 Saturday, 1409 Sunday) but don't know if that was a closed interval or not Saturday; I never had a stretch of more than an hour and a half without some interruption. A highlight Sunday evening was a coyote coming down from the hills behind White Creek and getting caught within 50 feet or so of Botryoidal when an eruption happened. The startled animal took off running straight toward the road to the delight of tourists packing up after Great Fountain, then slowed to a lope, crossed the road near the culvert, and followed the road toward Firehole Pool. "Spire" eluded me all weekend. I never saw anything out of Gemini either, but the water level in Pebble varied by almost a foot from one trip around the loop to the next. Pink Cone was chuffing steam Sunday morning which I presume means it erupted before sunrise and finished some time before I got in to the park. Lemon Spring was full Sunday morning, down a foot at 1300, and continued to slowly fill through the afternoon. On the people-watching front, it is amazing where people find to park their cars. At Black Sand I saw three or four cars angle-parked on the north side of the lot -- the first car parallel to and almost touching the boardwalk to Opalescent Pool -- on two occasions. At a time when the official spots were full, but the more obvious parallel parking along the perimeter of the lot by Whistle and on the exit road were not full. Admittedly this is "old news" now, but despite it having been a hot and dry summer until this past week, the Firehole Canyon swimming area was closed for all of 2011, and is still closed at present. The signage indicates it is closed anytime the flow is above 300 cfs. Last August I was checking the numbers online and watching them come down, 315, 312, 310, 307... and then suddenly leap up 10 or 15 cfs at 7:00 in the morning one day in early September, as if someone had 'kicked the gaging station.' The data for last fall have since been revised upward by 10 or 15 cfs to take out the hiccup so there is no discontinuity in the graph. I would like to think it was a routine recalibration. My suspicious side wondered if an adjustment was deemed necessary to avoid reopening the swimming area... supposedly the median discharge is low enough that if this policy remains in place, the swimming area should be open about 3 years out of 4 in July and August. But I have to worry that the po wers that be are hoping to keep it closed long enough that they are able to close it permanently. I don't remember seeing the streamflow policy posted before 2011. If the policy was the same, the swimming area should have opened about July 1st in 2010 and July 15th in 2009. Does anyone happen to know if it did? Personally I think it is a misguided decision to close Firehole Canyon at 300 cfs instead of 350 or 400 or some other high number such that it is closed only during the spring runoff peak. One advantage of having that public swimming area is that in years past I very rarely saw anybody swimming anywhere ELSE. People are now going swimming in at least a half dozen different places. Some of these are harmless and logical -- the 'beach' on the Gibbon River in walking distance of Madison Junction is obvious enough -- but Saturday there were cars in the first pullout north of Firehole Canyon Drive and a dozen people were in the water. The bend right above Firehole Cascade, where the road used to flood in high-water years before it was rebuilt in the 90s. I suppose the water gets shallow enough that any non-toddler could regain his footing before being swept over the top... but really, swimming within sight of the top of a waterfall?? How is closing the largest and safest place to swim, and pushing people into the marginal locations, a good safety policy? GRB ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120716/136df5bb/attachment.html> From conanvandt at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 20:30:22 2012 From: conanvandt at yahoo.com (Eric Hatfield) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] F&M video, 7/9/12. In-Reply-To: <1342497338.96951.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342497338.96951.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1342582222.7504.YahooMailNeo@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I made a cell phone vid of F&M on 7/9. ?Several have requested it, so here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=862Xg0jsbwo&feature=youtu.be? Not intended to be a videophotographic masterpiece, but not half-bad for a cell phone. ?The amazing bit is that I never had to so much as flinch while sitting on the benches closest to Fan. ?I eventually stopped the camera when I got a little drizzle from Lower Mortar, but it was never enough to matter (mostly I wanted to go run through Fan....) Anyway, a rare sight coupled with very rare perfect viewing conditions. ?How often can you see F&M in bright sun on a hot day, with a slight breeze so perfectly directed that you have to TRY to get wet? Enjoy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120717/d1090903/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Wed Jul 18 07:33:26 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Tuesday, July 17, 2012 Message-ID: Just checking that this is correct -- a Grand interval of only about 5h 18m? Scott Bryan In a message dated 7/17/2012 11:00:53 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, barbara.lasseter at gmail.com writes: Grand: 0530e, 1048 T1Q -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120718/8a7b466a/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 18:35:52 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:35:52 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Tuesday, July 17, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, my typo. The Grand electronic was 0430e, not 0530e. Intervals are short, but not that short...yet. Graham also caught that one. I'll correct it in today's report. Thanks for the alert! Barbara On 7/18/12, TSBryan at aol.com wrote: > Just checking that this is correct -- a Grand interval of only about 5h > 18m? > > Scott Bryan > > > In a message dated 7/17/2012 11:00:53 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > barbara.lasseter at gmail.com writes: > > Grand: 0530e, 1048 T1Q > > From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:08:19 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:08:19 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 18, 2012 Message-ID: First a correction: My report for Tues 7/17/12 listed Grand electronic as 0530e. It was a typo--actual electronic was 0430e, for a 6+hr interval, not a 5+hr interval. Thanks to those who caught it and send me queries! On Geyser Hill this AM, Giantess was having large boils (to 2 feet), long boiling episodes, boiling along the majority of the N side of the pool, and nice overflow from the west and north portions of the pool. It collected quite a crowd of gazers, a good number of w-o-o-o s, hence a good bit of interest from passing visitors. Kitt Barger reported seeing (last evening?) a puddle of standing water in the adjacent catch basin by Bronze Spring that was not there after the last rain. Split/Exclamation Point had fresh runoff channels with newly killed grass downslope this AM, although the feature itself looked pretty much as usual when I passed. Beehive: 0821 (indicator @ 0805, water seen at 0804) Grand: 0641, 1351 T1Q Plume: 0656, 0753, 0846, 0940, 1035, 1126, ..., 1307, 1407ie Lion: 0639ie (thought to be initial-d>5min), 0750, then not even a roar. Little Cub ie @ 0753, 0826, 0907, 0944 Aurum was watched all AM to no avail Castle: 1202 major after a minor last night--didn't hear the electronic time for the minor Oblong: 0622, 1026 Riverside: 1059 Daisy: 0554, 0839ie, ...,1344 Grotto: 1334 Grotto Fountain: large and long at 1330ie--water clearly visible from Grand above the trees until several minutes into Grotto. Fountain: 1028 d=38 Great Fountain: 0530ns VR It was in the late stages at 0620 when I stopped. Artemisia was "empty: at 1300. It was reported to have erupted about 1730 yesterday. Ater noting the lack of wildlife seen on my drives recently, I passed 3 groups of elk this AM, a bison, and a flock of Canada Geese (goslings now appear full-grown). Lovely strong rainbows in both Beehive and Lion. 38 degrees at 0600, 78 degrees at 1430. Sunny, mostly clear skies. Barbara Lasseter From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 14:30:42 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:30:42 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Thursday, July 19, 2012 Message-ID: Low on my way into the park this AM was 35--it warmed up quickly. I rode the bike comfortably to F&M at 0730 with no outer wear (and no Fan and Mortar eruption, either). Giantess was continuing to boil promisingly this AM. Beehive: no eruption this AM since the one at 2354 last night. Grand: 0400e, 1124-2 bursts West Triplet: 1154 Plume: 0849, 0948ie, 1045ie, ..,1238 Lion: 0631 Aurum: 1307 Castle: 0312e major Oblong: 0538ns, 1206ie Riverside: 545ie, 1156 Daisy: 0538ns, ..., 1048, 1318ie Grotto: 0525ie (off before 0753), 1226 Grotto Fountain: 1224 Great Fountain: 0610VR Pink Cone: 0656 Sawmill: 0659ie, new start @ 1114 N Goggles minor: 0846, 0956 Artemisia: 1045ie Till: 1338ie At 0959 F&M had 2 splashes in main vent, followed by the weakest event cycle I've ever seen. River had been on for 4 minutes at the time of the splashes. Gold came on 4 minutes after. There was very little water anywhere from the get-go. I understand there was a very nice event cycle last evening, however. Barbara Lasseter From car86ga at cox.net Thu Jul 19 03:52:49 2012 From: car86ga at cox.net (Carolyn Aaronson) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:52:49 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Regarding F & M video on 7/9/12 Message-ID: <20120719105253.TUVH18243.eastrmfepo101.cox.net@eastrmimpo110.cox.net> FANTASTIC!! Thanks for posting it Eric. Carolyn From TSBryan at aol.com Thu Jul 19 08:54:15 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Old name question by Scott Bryan---response by Lee Whittlesey Message-ID: <1d81a.489b1f88.3d3987a7@aol.com> Thanks, Lee. As I noted, I most definitely was not proposing that those names replace the ones in use. Rather, I was just noting their existence as I (at least) was not previously aware of them... I gather that you were down at least as far as the Lower Basin while I was in the park -- sorry I missed you. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120719/22b7b28b/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 13:09:13 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:09:13 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Friday, July 20, 2012 Message-ID: 58 degrees this AM and "heavy" air. Rain started at about 7 mile bridge and continued thru the "S" curves. Visibility was excellent from Fountain Flat on--overcast, but no mist/fog. Great Fountain had finished when I drove by about 0615, as had Pink cone when I passed a few minutes later. I learned that Fan & Mortar had erupted yesterday afternoon. Beehive: 0555 -- there was an indicator but it was not seen until just prior to Beehive start Grand: 0650 G2C West Triplet: 0701 Plume: 0711 Lion: 0727, 0827ie Castle: 0724ns Riverside: 0603ie Daisy: 0658 Artemisia: 0609ie Sawmill: 618ns ending by 0704 Morning's Thief: 0613ie White: 0835ie Flood: 0846ie By the time of the 0700 geyser call (which came after 0725), there was not much imminent in the UGB. After a bit of shopping, I tried Fountain, and found Twig ie. As the morning progressed the skies cleared. Nevertheless I returned home early afternoon. Barbara Lasseter From yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 18:35:39 2012 From: yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com (Karen Low) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Geysers] Lemon Spring Message-ID: <1342748139.6088.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've been driving Firehole Lake Drive a bit more often this week on tours, and I've noticed Lemon Spring with lowered water level twice. ?I know I've seen the water level down in it before, but it seemed to be maybe once a month last summer. ?On Tuesday, 7/17/12 it was at overflow when I went by in the early afternoon (~1:30pm) for my first tour, water level was down when I went by on my second tour (~4:45pm), and back up to overflow on my third tour (~7:30pm). ?Today (7/1912) when I went by with a tour (~3:15pm) it was overflowing, and then on my next tour (~5:30pm) the water level was down about two feet. Has it been varying so frequently often this summer? Karen Low -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120719/90db884f/attachment.html> From jochapple at earthlink.net Fri Jul 20 15:49:15 2012 From: jochapple at earthlink.net (JOChapple) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:49:15 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail Message-ID: Would someone please explain just when and why the NPS closed access toward Octopus Spring and the other features along White Creek? I know it happened either in 2010 or 2011 but would like to know the details. Thank you. Janet Chapple From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 20:50:59 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:50:59 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Lemon Spring In-Reply-To: <1342748139.6088.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342748139.6088.YahooMailNeo@web162602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Karen, I saw it down several inches on multiple occasions during my June 28-July 15 trip. I also saw it below overflow in early June. Lynn Stephens Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:39 -0700 From: yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Subject: [Geysers] Lemon Spring I've been driving Firehole Lake Drive a bit more often this week on tours, and I've noticed Lemon Spring with lowered water level twice. I know I've seen the water level down in it before, but it seemed to be maybe once a month last summer. On Tuesday, 7/17/12 it was at overflow when I went by in the early afternoon (~1:30pm) for my first tour, water level was down when I went by on my second tour (~4:45pm), and back up to overflow on my third tour (~7:30pm). Today (7/1912) when I went by with a tour (~3:15pm) it was overflowing, and then on my next tour (~5:30pm) the water level was down about two feet. Has it been varying so frequently often this summer? Karen Low _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120720/765a4db2/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 16:08:16 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:08:16 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Saturday, July 21, 2012 Message-ID: Apparently this is vacation week in Utah, and we saw an influx of visitors and gazers today. Looks like chip sealing of the W entrance road from the gate to 7 mile bridge may begin next week. The log pile in the turnout across from the Daisy trail is going down slowly as they are peeled and put into use between there and Biscuit--I suppose @ the bridge? Beehive: 1126 (indicator 1109) Grand: 1323 If I followed correctly we had a turban delay and a long 2nd burst--D5T2*__?? [electronic times reported this AM were 1630, 2240, 0457] Plume: 0654, 0747, 0844, 0939, 1035, 1134ie, 1229 Lion: 1226, 1338 Little Cub ie at 0712, 0826, 0858, 0938, 1013, 1045, 1121, ...,1340 Castle: 0835 [7/20 @ 1735e] West Triplet: 0519ie (off @ 546), 1014 Rift: 1045 (off @ 1222) Aurum: 1239 If depression was called, I did not hear it Oblong: 1156 Riverside: 0613, 1222ns Daisy: 0555, ..,1119, 1343 Grotto: 0516ie, off by 0600 Great Fountain: 1140 p=7 White ie at 0708 and 1032 I'll be out of the basin tomorrow. Barbara Lasseter From caros at xmission.com Sat Jul 21 15:25:14 2012 From: caros at xmission.com (Karen Webb) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:25:14 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500B2C4A.3010009@xmission.com> I've been wondering as well. That was such a nice little trail (and a fun area to explore if you happened to catch the start of OF at GF so know you have a little time). I understand the area around Buffalo Pool is fragile, and of course Octupus is close to the trail, but most of the features are so small it seems like you'd have to be actively trying to get a thermal burn to hurt yourself. They've also had some great research projects back there and you could often learn interesting things if you happened upon the researchers. Karen Webb On 7/20/2012 4:49 PM, JOChapple wrote: > Would someone please explain just when and why the NPS closed access toward Octopus Spring and the other features along White Creek? I know it happened either in 2010 or 2011 but would like to know the details. > > Thank you. > > Janet Chapple > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120721/e908b643/attachment.html> From jeff.cross at utah.edu Sat Jul 21 11:48:54 2012 From: jeff.cross at utah.edu (JEFFREY CROSS) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:48:54 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek Trail Closure Message-ID: <2604B8196B0E664F828AD7BD46C307DE25FF9752@X-MB2.xds.umail.utah.edu> Jan asks why the trail into White Creek got closed... I can't tell you why the NPS closed the trail into White Creek because I wasn't at the meetings where that issue got decided. I can tell you that, if I were responsible for addressing that issue, **I would have made the same decision.** White Creek used to be a quiet, secluded place to escape from the crowds of people waiting for Great Fountain. Few people knew about it. Those who did were, apparently, safe and responsible enough that I never became aware of any official action to close the trail. About ten years ago (early 2000s), this changed. The number of people going up White Creek to look at Octopus Pool and other features increased drastically. The trail, which had once been a narrow footpath, widened to 4 feet in some places. In other places, foot traffic spread out over large sections of the sinter sheet. The ground around points of interest got trampled. Often, families with small children would cluster next to thermal features. Neither the parents nor the children had any knowledge of how to be safe in such situations. Nobody understood how much environmental damage they were doing, either. White Creek can't support that kind of visitation. The trampling at Octopus Pool got written up in the scholarly literature. The thin sinter ledges at Buffalo Pool went unnoticed by countless people who failed to understand the danger of such formations. Why did this become a management problem in the early 2000s? I'll guess... Casual Park visitors found references to White Creek, published in guidebooks and on the internet, that urged them to visit the location. No longer were visitors at White Creek confined to a select few safe, responsible people, who were motivated by a true interest in thermal features. Today, anybody with access to the internet and popular guidebooks thinks of White Creek as a destination. Here's the lesson I take from this--when we publicize our knowledge of certain parts of the Park, we'd do well to think about how people will behave when presented with the information. In the example of White Creek, people acted irresponsibly. Explicit, signed closure was the result. Jeff Cross jeff.cross at utah.edu ________________________________________ From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] on behalf of JOChapple [jochapple at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:49 PM To: geyser list Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail Would someone please explain just when and why the NPS closed access toward Octopus Spring and the other features along White Creek? I know it happened either in 2010 or 2011 but would like to know the details. Thank you. Janet Chapple _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 15:39:50 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:39:50 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't have an exact answer to Janet's question. I do know that a several members of a group of individuals that had gone up White Creek were bonded (ticketed) this summer for being in a closed thermal area, possession of artifacts, and were given a mandatory appearance before the magistrate rather than being allowed to just mail in the fine. Lynn Stephens > From: jochapple at earthlink.net > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:49:15 -0700 > To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail > > Would someone please explain just when and why the NPS closed access toward Octopus Spring and the other features along White Creek? I know it happened either in 2010 or 2011 but would like to know the details. > > Thank you. > > Janet Chapple > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120721/2f16a9f5/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Sat Jul 21 07:07:10 2012 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Geysers] Lemon Spring Message-ID: <5f8d.549a5fc1.3d3c118e@aol.com> Interesting, because during my 17 days in the park I drove by Lemon Spring at least once time each day, and it was full every time. Scott Bryan In a message dated 7/21/2012 6:53:56 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, lstephens2006 at hotmail.com writes: Karen, I saw it down several inches on multiple occasions during my June 28-July 15 trip. I also saw it below overflow in early June. Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120721/952976f0/attachment.html> From mauree0258 at aol.com Sun Jul 22 12:35:57 2012 From: mauree0258 at aol.com (Maureen Edgerton) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 13:35:57 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Lemon Spring and Jelly Geyser Message-ID: <35F70907-DA2A-42AF-839E-7D56398CE657@aol.com> Hello everyone. I am on the Firehole Lake Drive road most every day and I have seen Lemon Spring almost empty on more than one occasion and a foot or more from overflow very often since the road opened in late May. I have seen gazers taking photos of this as well, and maybe someone will share a photo to let the listserv folks see what is going on...? As Karen mentioned, she was by more than once in the same day and found it low once and then back to overflow so it would have been very easy for Scott to have always seen it full. He just happened upon it when it was full. Today I saw Jelly Geyser at Fountain Paint Pots in the lowest level I have ever seen it. It looked like a dark brown hole in the earth, no color to the feature at all, with only a small bit of water in the bottom of the hole. Fountain continues to be wondrously blue and is doing long intervals still. Very few gazers are ever there now that Morning has stopped (speculation of course) erupting, yet many visitors are enjoying some amazing eruptions of Fountain. Morning's Thief is still erupting before Fountain and Twig usually starts near the end of the eruption, some clues for gazers to know what is happening if they ever do venture to the Lower Basin. Cheers...Maureen Edgerton From schwarzmb at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 16:27:11 2012 From: schwarzmb at gmail.com (Mary Beth Schwarz) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:27:11 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] 21 and 22 July 2012 (Schwarz) Message-ID: 21 July: Aurum 1659 Castle 2235 (2239 E) Grand 2037(G1C) Oblong 1634, 1935 22 July: Artemisia 1117 Aurum 1251 Beehive 0216 (B. Ind. 0158) Castle 1246ie major Daisy 1020, 1243 Depression 0853ie, 1239ie Fountain 0554ie (end 0619) from Maureen Grand 0301(G1C), 0936(G1C) d= 10m Grotto 0522ie, 115ns Lion 0554ie, 0700ie Little Cub 1223ie, 1300ie, 1330ie, 1403ie Oblong o546ie, 1122 Oval 0844ie Penta steam phase 0844ie Plume 0838, 1218, 1312, 1407 Rift 0519ie Riverside 0714, 1324 Sawmill 0609 Spa 1424ie West Triplet 0309 Mary Beth Schwarz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120722/b556a1c6/attachment.html> From vladimir.lipkin at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 17:32:19 2012 From: vladimir.lipkin at gmail.com (Vladimir Lipkin) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:32:19 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] 21 and 22 July 2012 (Schwarz) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: May be Beehive at 1528? On Jul 22, 2012 5:41 PM, "Mary Beth Schwarz" wrote: > > > > > > > > 21 July: > > Aurum 1659 > > Castle 2235 (2239 E) > > Grand 2037(G1C) > > Oblong 1634, 1935 > > > 22 July: > > Artemisia 1117 > > Aurum 1251 > > Beehive 0216 (B. Ind. 0158) > > Castle 1246ie major > > Daisy 1020, 1243 > > Depression 0853ie, 1239ie > > Fountain 0554ie (end 0619) from Maureen > > Grand 0301(G1C), 0936(G1C) d= 10m > > Grotto 0522ie, 115ns > > Lion 0554ie, 0700ie > > Little Cub 1223ie, 1300ie, 1330ie, 1403ie > > Oblong o546ie, 1122 > > Oval 0844ie > > Penta steam phase 0844ie > > Plume 0838, 1218, 1312, 1407 > > Rift 0519ie > > Riverside 0714, 1324 > > Sawmill 0609 > > Spa 1424ie > > West Triplet 0309 > > Mary Beth Schwarz > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120722/7b60f16e/attachment.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 07:38:35 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:38:35 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Tiwg Jet, Fountain, and Morning Message-ID: THIS POST IS FOR THE PERSONAL USE OF THE READERS OF THIS LISTSERV AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE, INCLUDING PUBLICATION IN THE SPUT OR TRANSACTIONS (Tara does have permission to incorporate it into the Current Geyser Activity column for The Sput). Since I didn't have internet access during most of my late June-early July trip, I did not post any information on the listserv. Two things I noticed about the "small" geysers in the Fountain Complex. Jet intervals--Jet's intervals during the 6/30 eruption of Morning and for the first hours following the 6/30 eruption of Morning acted the way they did in 1991 when Morning was active. Jet did erupt during the 6/30 eruption of Morning, but eruptions were several minutes apart, not the 1-3 minute intervals Jet has during eruptions of Fountain. Also, following the 6/30 eruption of Morning, Jet's intervals immediately dropped to 3-4 minutes, then gradually rose over the next few hours. Following an eruption of Fountain, Jet was sometimes quiet for a few hours. This reversal of pattern was also seen in 1991. With respect to Twig, Twig's average (mean) start time after the start of a Fountain eruption (from May 14 through July 22) has been 34 minutes. Only four times has a Twig start been recorded 25 or fewer minutes after the start of Fountain. These were 17 minutes (1201 Fountain following the 616ns Morning on 6/30), 15 minutes (1551 Fountain following the 1034 eruption of Morning on 6/21), 25 minutes (1812 Fountain following the 1234ie Morning on 6/20) and 20 minutes (1458 Fountain on 6/13 which Maureen Edgerton reported threw lots of rocks). Limited sample sizes, but the early Twig start on June 13 provides additional evidence that Morning might have had an eruption June 12 or June 13. Someone asked whether it was possible additional eruptions of Morning were missed prior to June 20. Given the amount of time I had the Fountain Complex under observation from May 18-June 7 when Fountain was not expected, I doubt any eruptions of Morning Geyser were missed during that time frame. Between obervation time spent there by Chris Daubert and myself, it is also highly doubtful that any eruptions of Morning were missed from June 22-July 15. Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120723/7400dbee/attachment.html> From jochapple at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 14:59:39 2012 From: jochapple at earthlink.net (JOChapple) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 14:59:39 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail In-Reply-To: <500B2C4A.3010009@xmission.com> References: <500B2C4A.3010009@xmission.com> Message-ID: Thank you to all who answered my query about the White Creek informal trail. The four very different answers from four people show the great diversity in ways of thinking among our small group of people who care a lot about the geysers. Now that I know a little more about it, I will remove any mention of the White Creek features in Yellowstone Treasures. Besides wanting to offer a useful book about the park, my intention has always been to present (1) interesting but accurate information and (2) to keep in mind the best interests of the park and its features. I would welcome any corrections or other constructive suggestions from geyser gazers. This is an especially good time to let me know anything you have observed that doesn?t belong in this book or that can be improved, since we are preparing a new edition of the guidebook. Gazers must accept, though, that the geyser information has to be quite general in a book that cannot be updated every year. While I may salivate over those Morning Geyser eruptions that didn't keep going long enough for me to get there, I can't justify mentioning treats like that. Janet Chapple - - - - - On Jul 21, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Karen Webb wrote: > I've been wondering as well. That was such a nice little trail (and a fun area to explore if you happened to catch the start of OF at GF so know you have a little time). I understand the area around Buffalo Pool is fragile, and of course Octupus is close to the trail, but most of the features are so small it seems like you'd have to be actively trying to get a thermal burn to hurt yourself. They've also had some great research projects back there and you could often learn interesting things if you happened upon the researchers. > Karen Webb > > On 7/20/2012 4:49 PM, JOChapple wrote: >> >> Would someone please explain just when and why the NPS closed access toward Octopus Spring and the other features along White Creek? I know it happened either in 2010 or 2011 but would like to know the details. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Janet Chapple >> _______________________________________________ >> Geysers mailing list >> Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120723/b3fa093e/attachment.html> From ufreund at att.net Mon Jul 23 17:40:52 2012 From: ufreund at att.net (ufreund at att.net) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:40:52 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] White Creek access trail In-Reply-To: References: <500B2C4A.3010009@xmission.com> Message-ID: <001e01cd6934$fb482e80$f1d88b80$@net> I was amazed at the number of people in another gray area that shall remain unmentioned for obvious reasons. It looked like a tour bus had unloaded. That area is every bit as sensitive and unsafe to the average tourist as White Creek. So my suggestion is to remove all mention of everything except where there are boardwalks and officially approved and maintained trails. Someday NPS will close the entire Park to unescorted tourists. It's already happened in the winter season, except for the road to Cooke City. Thanks, Udo Freund "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." --Will Rogers From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of JOChapple Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:00 PM To: Geyser Observation Reports Subject: Re: [Geysers] White Creek access trail Thank you to all who answered my query about the White Creek informal trail. The four very different answers from four people show the great diversity in ways of thinking among our small group of people who care a lot about the geysers. Now that I know a little more about it, I will remove any mention of the White Creek features in Yellowstone Treasures. Besides wanting to offer a useful book about the park, my intention has always been to present (1) interesting but accurate information and (2) to keep in mind the best interests of the park and its features. I would welcome any corrections or other constructive suggestions from geyser gazers. This is an especially good time to let me know anything you have observed that doesn't belong in this book or that can be improved, since we are preparing a new edition of the guidebook. Gazers must accept, though, that the geyser information has to be quite general in a book that cannot be updated every year. While I may salivate over those Morning Geyser eruptions that didn't keep going long enough for me to get there, I can't justify mentioning treats like that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120723/8dd2475f/attachment-0001.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 07:12:46 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:12:46 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Fountain and Twig Message-ID: THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THE PERSONAL USE OF THE READERS OF THIS LISTSERV AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE, INCLUDING PUBLICATION IN THE SPUT (except that Tara has permission to use it for the Current Geyser Activity section) OR TRANSACTIONS OR REPRODUCTION ON THE INTERNET. Some number crunching for 2012 Fountain's intervals and durations: April 20 through July 21 May 17 through July 21closed intervals count 52 51 minimum 8:34 8:34 maximum 14:13 14:13 mean 11:24 11:23 median 11:25 11:25 overall mean 11:31 11:23 durations (minutes) count 92 79 minimum 30 30 maximum 51 51 mean 39 39 median 39 39 Some number crunching for relationship between Twig starts and Fountain startsMinutes Twig starts after Fountain starts count 90 79 minimum 15 15 maximum 49 49 mean 34 34 median 34 34 Minutes Twig starts before Fountain ends, when Twig starts before Fountain ends count 69 59 min 0 0 max 28 28 mean 8 7 median 6 6 Minutes Twig starts after Fountain ends, when Twig starts after Fountain ends count 16 15 minimum -7 -7 maximum -1 -1 mean -3 -3 median -2 -2 Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120724/8b7a933d/attachment-0001.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 07:33:24 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:33:24 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Morning's Thief and Fountain Message-ID: THIS POST IS FOR THE PERSONAL USE OF THE READERS OF THIS LISTSERV AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE, INCLUDING PUBLICATION IN THE TRANSACTIONS OR THE SPUT (except for Tara's permission to use in the Current Geyser Activity column as appropriate). Morning's Thief and Fountain--Data from April 20 - July 21. Data source--Data collected by me supplemented with data from geysertimes.org Intervals between eruptions of Morning's Thief preceding Fountain's eruption (excludes intervals during Fountain's eruption) count 249minimum 7 minutesmaximum 72 minutesmean 23 minutesmedian 23 minutes standard deviation 13 minutes Length of Time Morning's Thief began after the preceding Fountain and before the next Fountain (excluding Fountain eruptions that were not preceded by an eruption of Morning: Hours:minutes after Hours:minutes before Preceding Fountain Next Fountaincount 17 21minimum 7h57m 1h33mmaximum 11h11m 4h45mmean 9h18m 2h49mmedian 8h55m 2h54mstdev 1h02m 50m Interval between last two eruptions of Morning's Thief preceding Fountain's eruptioncount 54minimum 7 minmaximum 39 minmean 12 minmedian 10 minst dev 6 min Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120724/34a98ce5/attachment-0001.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 08:06:12 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:12 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Spasm, Super Frying Pan, and Jet Message-ID: THIS POST IS FOR THE PERSONAL USE OF THE READERS OF THIS LISTSERV AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE, INCLUDING PUBLICATION IN THE TRANSACTIONS OR THE SPUT (except for Tara's permission to use in the Current Geyser Activity column as appropriate). In reviewing my data from my two trips this summer, Spasm's intervals vary from about 3 to 4 hours, with durations of about 35-75 minutes. I have not noticed any correlation between Spasm's starts and Fountain's starts. More often than not, Spasm is not erupting at the time Fountain starts. Super Frying Pan intervals have varied from about 2 to 3 1/2 hours, with durations varying from 7 to 14 minutes. As Steve Eide noted in a post early in the 2012 season, Super Frying Pan almost always has a rise, then a fall below ground level, then sometimes a second rise/fall, before the eruption starts. Similarly, the end of the eruption often has a fall below ground level, then a subsequent rise with additiional eruptive activity, before the cessation of all activity. Super Frying Pan eruptions that occur earlier in the interval between one Fountain and the next appear to have a greater influence on Jet than do Super Frying Pan eruptions that either occur later in the interval between one Fountain and the next or start during Fountain. Sometimes it appears there is no impact on Jet. At other times Jet appears to skip one or two intervals. There does not appear to be any impact on Jet when Super Frying Pan erupts during Fountain's eruption. Jet intervals--I have recorded several hundred intervals. The mean and median (excluding intervals during Fountain's eruption and intervals between the 6/30 eruption of Morning and the next eruption of Fountain, are 10 minutes. I don't see any pattern in the intervals that would help in determining how much longer it will be before the next eruption of Fountain, other than there is sometimes a period of a few hours after Fountain's eruption where Jet becomes inactive. Lynn Stephens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120724/d795546c/attachment.html> From gmushial at gmdr.com Tue Jul 24 12:22:14 2012 From: gmushial at gmdr.com (greg mushial) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:22:14 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Augment guidebook with website Message-ID: <6FEC2A1C8CD8489CA2D234E2066B8D76@gigasmiles> " I would welcome any corrections or other constructive suggestions from geyser gazers. This is an especially good time to let me know anything you have observed that doesn?t belong in this book or that can be improved, since we are preparing a new edition of the guidebook. Gazers must accept, though, that the geyser information has to be quite general in a book that cannot be updated every year. While I may salivate over those Morning Geyser eruptions that didn't keep going long enough for me to get there, I can't justify mentioning treats like that. " I'm new to the list... but suspect we all have the same problem: trying to keep guides current. In the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) world, one approach has been to put the non-changing physical features in a dead-tree edition, and provide a link to a website where the most current information is kept and updated - besides: websites are much easier to update/modify than any larger document. Just a thought... and am looking forward to spending most of next week as a gazer [will be very first time for the wife to see a geyser - so, very much looking forward to sharing the magic with her]. dr greg From gmushial at gmdr.com Tue Jul 24 12:29:46 2012 From: gmushial at gmdr.com (greg mushial) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:29:46 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] automating eruption logging? Message-ID: Again, as a noobie, but as someone that has had to deal with realworld data taking: is it not possible to use a webcam to cover most of a geyser field, sample the cam every 30 secs, 60 secs; and from experience or from trianglating from a pair of cams, be able to identify what is erupting and log the events? Clearly not as much fun as sitting and waiting and watching... but might allow for the building of a more complete database, and hence better eruption models. Just a thought... or what'll have to pass as such. dr greg From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 17:09:30 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:09:30 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Tuesday, July 24, 2012 Message-ID: Beehive: 1148 [7/23 @ 2110] Beehive's Indicator: 1130 Grand: [7/23 @ 2141e], 0507 (0517e), 1049 G1C (5hr 42min interval) This eruption lasted about 9-1/2 min, and vent did not erupt until 8 minutes, 12 seconds into Grand. Very Interesting! Note the discrepency between the observed atomic time of 0507 and the electronic time of 0517. I understand the delay is maybe 2 minutes, suggesting an issue with the park service timing device. Plume: 0640ie, 0734, ..., 0918, 1014, 1108, 1157 Little Cub ie @ 0705, 0746, 0825, 0900, 0936 Depression: 0741ie, 1115 Aurum: 0802 Oblong: 1050 Riverside: 0550, 1201 Daisy: 0630, 0905, 1140 Grotto in marathon since about midnight, and Bijou was off while waiting for Grand--notice how free I am with the word "waiting"--I have no Turbans to report. It was ie as I arrived, and that was it! Small crowd, too! Great Fountain: 0014e, 1138 p=9 No Fountain as of the time I drove past. Flood: 0633ie N Goggles minor: 0619, 0657, 0738, 0831 The "Mouth" feature across from Arrowhead started at 0807 and was again ie @ 0942 Sawmill had a start @ 0955 Tilt's Baby was full but not pulsing as I made a trip to the lower store before going to Grand, then empty at 1027 as I headed back to Grand. Barbara Lasseter From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 13:27:50 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:27:50 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 25, 2012 Message-ID: Fan & Mortar 1131 Beehive: 0241 near end Grand: 0010 (0012e), 0642, 1251 G1C West Triplet: 1210ie (off by 1224) Plume: 0651, 0747, 0843, 0941, 1032, ..., 1226 Lion: 1315 Little Cub ie: 0702, 0814, 0852, 0929, 1006 Depression From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 13:32:38 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:32:38 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 25, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry--hit the wrong button apparently--to continue: Depression: 0708 Castle: 0514ns minor Oblong: 0620ie, 1046 Riverside: 0549, 1202 Daisy: 0742, 1017, 1245 Grotto: marathon ended about 2200-2300 last night Artemisia: [7/24 @ 1354], 0810 Uncertain: 1052ie Tilt's Baby was empty @ 1307 Hoping this can be pieced together into a single report Barbara Lasseter On 7/25/12, Barbara Lasseter wrote: > Fan & Mortar 1131 > Beehive: 0241 near end > Grand: 0010 (0012e), 0642, 1251 G1C > West Triplet: 1210ie (off by 1224) > Plume: 0651, 0747, 0843, 0941, 1032, ..., 1226 > Lion: 1315 > Little Cub ie: 0702, 0814, 0852, 0929, 1006 > Depression > From brdavis at iusb.edu Wed Jul 25 14:03:39 2012 From: brdavis at iusb.edu (Davis, Brian L.) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:03:39 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] automating eruption logging? Message-ID: <1FCABEC700A2F646A37E66F5897142F410DF00D5@IU-MSSG-MBX102.ads.iu.edu> > ...is it not possible to use a webcam to cover most of a geyser field, > sample the cam every 30 secs, 60 secs... It's an interesting idea. Which would work OK, unless... ...it was night. ...or raining. ...or hard to tell steam from an eruption. ...or foggy. ...or snowing. ...or out of sight of the camera. (and probably others I'm missing.) Still, it's -NOT- a bad idea... it's a very interesting one (to me), actually, and somebody with the programming experience could try to start with Old Faithful & Beehive from the streaming cam. More data is good... but this would be an incomplete set with unknown data collection biases. What would be interesting is to compare an automated image-capture-based system with the other methods (temperature sensors, humans watching cameras) to see exactly what the sampling bias is. -- Brian Davis From david.schwarz at alumni.duke.edu Tue Jul 24 17:08:38 2012 From: david.schwarz at alumni.duke.edu (David Schwarz) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:08:38 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] automating eruption logging? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Two problems with that: 1) The only geyser basin with sufficient communications infrastructure for web cams to even be feasible is the Upper Geyser Basin, and it's already got a couple that cover a large part of it in about the detail you could expect from what is effectively a single vantage point. They allow a usable but far from complete record. and 2) Try, just try, to get the local representatives of the National Park Service to let you finance, install and support a web cam somewhere. Offer perpetual technical and financial support, the backing of 20 major research institutions, and your first-born child. Good luck. David Schwarz On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:29 PM, greg mushial wrote: > Again, as a noobie, but as someone that has had to deal with realworld > data taking: is it not possible to use a webcam to cover most of a geyser > field, sample the cam every 30 secs, 60 secs; and from experience or from > trianglating from a pair of cams, be able to identify what is erupting and > log the events? Clearly not as much fun as sitting and waiting and > watching... but might allow for the building of a more complete database, > and hence better eruption models. Just a thought... or what'll have to > pass as such. > dr greg > ______________________________**_________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > https://lists.wallawalla.edu/**mailman/listinfo/geysers<> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120724/f4134401/attachment.html> From caros at xmission.com Wed Jul 25 22:45:46 2012 From: caros at xmission.com (Karen Webb) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:45:46 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 25, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5010D98A.7010709@xmission.com> Is anyone compiling interval data for F&M, also for Lion series from initial to initial? Karen Webb On 7/25/2012 2:27 PM, Barbara Lasseter wrote: > Fan& Mortar 1131 > Beehive: 0241 near end > Grand: 0010 (0012e), 0642, 1251 G1C > West Triplet: 1210ie (off by 1224) > Plume: 0651, 0747, 0843, 0941, 1032, ..., 1226 > Lion: 1315 > Little Cub ie: 0702, 0814, 0852, 0929, 1006 > Depression > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120725/5fffd328/attachment.html> From lstephens2006 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 26 06:10:21 2012 From: lstephens2006 at hotmail.com (Lynn Stephens) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:10:21 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 25, 2012 In-Reply-To: <5010D98A.7010709@xmission.com> References: , <5010D98A.7010709@xmission.com> Message-ID: Yes. Easy place to find interval data for F&M is on geysertimes.org. Nice thing about F&M since rejuvenation is that 6 of 7 eruptions have been in daylight. F&M 7/25 1131 5d18h52m 7/19 1639 ~ 4 1/2 days (Note that intervals on GT assume a midnight eruption, so "closed" interval on GT is not correct. 7/15 overnight ~5 1/2 days (Note that intervals on GT assume a midnight eruption, so "closed" interval on GT is not correct.) 7/9 1232 10d0h22m 6/29 1210 4d21h25m 6/24 1435 ~15d5h 6/9 ~0925 Lion initial to initial--The only day in the past three months when two initials have been reported on the same day was 7/3, with an interval between reports of initial eruptions of 16h25m. For that time frame, I examined intervals on consecutive days where the interval between reported initials was under 30 hours. Using those criteria (reports on consecutive days, interval between reports less than 30 hours), the minimum interval between reported initials was 12 1/2 hours, the maximum was 28 1/2 hours, and the mean was about 21 hours. I'm not claiming that the mean interval between series is about 21 hours, but rather only that the mean time between reported initials was about 21 hours. Some of the intervals between reports of 20-30 hours could be double intervals; some of the intervals between reports exceeding 30 hours could be closed intervals. Lynn Stephens Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:45:46 -0600 From: caros at xmission.com To: geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu Subject: Re: [Geysers] Geyser Report Wednesday, July 25, 2012 Is anyone compiling interval data for F&M, also for Lion series from initial to initial? Karen Webb On 7/25/2012 2:27 PM, Barbara Lasseter wrote: Fan & Mortar 1131 Beehive: 0241 near end Grand: 0010 (0012e), 0642, 1251 G1C West Triplet: 1210ie (off by 1224) Plume: 0651, 0747, 0843, 0941, 1032, ..., 1226 Lion: 1315 Little Cub ie: 0702, 0814, 0852, 0929, 1006 Depression _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at lists.wallawalla.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20120726/1c25ed91/attachment.html> From barbara.lasseter at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 15:38:53 2012 From: barbara.lasseter at gmail.com (Barbara Lasseter) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:38:53 -0400 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report Thursday, July 26, 2012 Message-ID: A short day, even for me... Beehive: 0805 (indicator 0747) Grand: [7/25 1256e, 1919e] 0139 (0143e), 0829 G1C West Triplet: 0711ie Rift: 0746 Plume: 0658 Depression: 0755--a very weak eruption, a micro-minor Castle: [7/25 1933, 1938e] Oblong: 0704ie Riverside: 0643 Daisy: 0643, 0924 Grotto: 0540ie Fountain approx 1107ie White Dome: 0627 Sawmill: 0628 start, off 0645 34 degrees this AM--10 degrees lower than on recent days. Again, quickly rising with the sun, and expected to rise to more normal July temps this weekend. It has been lovely while it lasted! Barbara Lasseter From taigabridge at hotmail.com Thu Jul 26 16:18:37 2012 From: taigabridge at hotmail.com (Gordon Bower) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:18:37 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] automating eruption logging? In-Reply-To: <1FCABEC700A2F646A37E66F5897142F410DF00D5@IU-MSSG-MBX102.ads.iu.edu> References: <1FCABEC700A2F646A37E66F5897142F410DF00D5@IU-MSSG-MBX102.ads.iu.edu> Message-ID: When the Upper Basin still webcam first burst upon the scene, several of us explored the possibility of taking advantage of it as a data logging device. Recording every image off the cam -- back then it took a picture every 19 or 20 seconds even though the regular viewing page was only set to refresh every 30 seconds -- is straightforward. For a human, flipping through those images looking for puffs of white in particular spots at expected times is easy and fast: you could probably get through all the daylight pictures for a whole day in about half an hour and manually flag the ones showing eruptions. Nighttime eruptions at least of Old Faithful, Beehive, and Lion are easy enough to spot when there is moon up, especially if you have software to automatically brighten the image. Old Faithful is usually detectable even without moon. (I wrote a script to count the brightness of each pixel and re-scale them into a greyscale image such that 90% of the image was darker than 10% grey, 50% was darker than 50% grey, etc. Noisy, but a lot of information is buried down in the noise at night.) Writing software to automatically flag the eruptions, rather than having a human flip through them, is a bit harder. You have to look at very precise locations in the picture to see Aurum, Little Cub, and Beehive's Indicator, the eruptions are only a few pixels high, and since the camera is mounted on a tree that sways with the wind, you can't hard-code which pixels to look at: a "fixed" point in the image moves up and down randomly by 5 pixels almost every day and by more than 10 when it is windy. There isn't much left-right panning - that would require twisting the tree trunk - but there is tilting of the same magnitude as the up-down offset. When I first tried it, in the fall of 2006, I tried using a line detection approach to find the benches in the foreground, since they are never blocked by steam. Oops: in years that have real winters, the benches completely disappear. (People stand between them and the camera too, but often the line can still found.) Instead I had to use the ridgeline in the background to register the image: essentially I measured where the ridgeline was in a reference image, then scanned a zone about 20 pixels either side of it, and searched for the vertical offset and tilt that gave me the strongest contrast. This usually works even when Old Faithful blots out half the screen, but sometimes doesn't if there is bright sun on one side and dark cloud on the other. A better computer graphics guy could probably do a better job registering the pictures than I could. Once you get that far, you just look for points that are unusually white. I defined 4 clumps of points, the areas just below, right above, some distance above, and horizontally adjacent to, the vents of each geyser I was interested in, and looked for times that the second (and sometimes also third or fourth) was unusually white more so than the first was. So far so good, for one season, but not the whole year. Surprise: Little Cub erupting on an August afternoon makes LESS steam than Little Cub/Lioness/Big Cub NOT erupting on a November early morning. If you choose a fixed cutoff level, you get a lot of false positives on cold or humid days and/or you miss a lot of eruptions on hot dry days. In 2006 the Park Service was displaying the time (with seconds), temperature, and relative humidity across the top of each image. I stripped these off, converted them back to text, and had a sliding scale for my detection limits based on the temperature and humidity. They confounded me by removing first the humidity, and then the temperature from the image. (They have also removed the seconds from the timestamp now.) You can get these every 15 minutes from the stream gaging station if you really want them, but it is a nuisance to harvest data from two different websites and combine them. The camera also got re-aimed every few months, and after each re-aiming I had to spend several hours re-selecting my reference locations and several days testing and refining. As time went by I got less and less willing to try to sink so much time into hobby software, and completely abandoned the project in the summer of 2008. So, is it possible? Sure, it's possible. If you really want to, you can get almost every Old Faithful and Beehive, all daytime and some nighttime Lions, about 90% of daytime Plumes, Aurums, and Depressions, and about 80% of Little Cubs. With intelligent guessing you can (when the camera is aimed far enough left) get almost all daytime Oblongs, Grands and Giants, and most daytime Riversides and F&Ms but human intervention is needed to tell these - especially Grand and Oblong - apart. Is it worth the trouble? No, not really. In 2006-2008 we were getting better data off of the temperature loggers than we were off the webcam. With the loggers not being regularly downloaded, perhaps there is a reason again. But I would only commit to it on an ongoing basis if the Park Service folk in charge of the camera would commit to supplying the necessary time and weather information and to not changing the aim of the camera on a whim. It would be a fun project, if someone on the other end cared enough about it to make use of it. Operationally, I admit that automatic eruption detection is a cute toy, that wouldn't gain the rangers anything beyond what they could already gain by quickly flipping through a couple hundred screencaps in a minute each morning to look for the last eruption of each geyser they cared about. If any of the other folk on the list who experimented with processing the webcam captures would like to chime in, I for one would enjoy hearing about their experiences and comparing notes a bit. GRB