[Geysers] Dating geyser water

[Freund, Udo]

I seem to recall the statement originating from the detection of minute
traces of organic material in Old Faithful's water, which was dated
using the carbon-14 method.  I believe the organic material was
determined to be bovine excrement.

Thanks, 
Udo Freund 
Blessed are those that run around in circles for they shall be called
big wheels! 

 

________________________________

From: geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu
[mailto:geysers-bounces at lists.wallawalla.edu] On Behalf Of Eric Hatfield
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Geyser Observation Reports
Subject: Re: [Geysers] Dating geyser water


I've thought about this problem before.  The post below is well written,
but it never specifically includes the radioactive decay into the
calcification.  1 TU now presumes 16 TU input if the water is about 50
years old.  There is a lot of accounting to be done.
 
But the real problem is with low concentrations of tritium, which is the
case.  This could be from young (~50 years) water, or mixing of very old
water with some proportion of brand new water near the surface.  Both
would give the same result.
 
The 500 year old figure has often puzzled me, because that's 41 half
lives of tritium, after which there's no way you could detect tritium in
any predicitive way.  That figure must have been derived from some other
method.  Anyone know?
 

-----------------
Ralph,


Here is something for the geyser mailing list:

Dating water is tricky, particularly in geysers where waters are
boiling. 
One method scientists use to date water involves measuring the 
concentration of tritium (3H), which is a short-lived radioactive
isotope 
of hydrogen with a half-life of 12.32 years.  Some tritium forms
naturally 
as cosmic radiation interacts with the upper atmosphere, but during the 
1950s and early 1960s, testing of nuclear weapons raised atmospheric 
concentrations hundreds of times above the normal background 
concentration.  Tritium concentrations in the atmosphere have decreased 
following the signing of the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty in the early 1960s 
and have since approached natural levels.

By measuring tritium concentrations in spring (or geyser) waters, what
is 
actually being dated is the last interaction between a water molecule
and 
the atmosphere.  However, when precipitation (with a known tritium 
concentration) enters the subsurface (groundwater) system, mixing of the

water molecules occurs, so that at any given location along the flow
path 
from recharge to a geyser, a finite volume of water would represent
some 
integration of water molecules from many years.  It is not realistic to 
assume that the entire volume erupting from a geyser percolated into the

subsurface at the same time.  More likely, the erupted volume is a
mixture 
of water molecules that fell as precipitation over a rather long time 
period.  To illustrate this point of mixing my USGS colleague (emeritus)

Bob Fournier reported in a 1969 paper in the journal Science that more 
than 24 consecutive eruptions were required to clear Old Faithful of a 
tracer (rhodamine B) in a 1963 experiment.

Nevertheless, some inferences can be made by using tritium.  For
example, 
this year's precipitation in Yellowstone has a concentration of 10
Tritium 
Units.  (One tritium unit equals 1 tritium atom in 1018 hydrogen atoms).

If for example the tritium concentration of a geyser is 5 TU, we
calculate 
that the water could represent a 50:50 mixture of this year's 
precipitation and pre-bomb (more than 50-year-old) precipitation (0 TU).

However, this is not a unique solution, both because of subsurface
mixing 
and the time-variance of the tritium input.  (The most straightforward 
interpretation of tritium occurs when its concentration is 0 TU, and we 
can confidently infer that none of the water has interacted with the 
atmosphere for 50 years.)

In the past year, our group at the USGS, in collaboration with the 
National Park Service, has sampled the waters of five geysers (Old 
Faithful, Daisy, Grand, Oblong, and Aurum) six times.  We are still in
the 
process of analyzing the data, but so far we have found some detectable 
tritium in all five geysers (though always less than 1 TU).  This
implies 
that some recent water molecules are part of the total volume erupted.

Other methods used by scientists for dating "young" water include 
measuring the concentrations of chloro-fluorocarbons (CFCs) and
noble-gas 
(mainly argon) isotopes dissolved in water.  As with tritium, the data 
require considerable interpretation.  "Older" waters are often dated
using 
radiocarbon methods, but this is problematic in volcanic areas such as 
Yellowstone because of the input of magmatic carbon.

The short answer to Lucille Reilly's question following what she heard 
during a geyser walk "OF's water supply is about 500 years old" - I
don't 
know how that info came about....

I hope the discussion group finds this helpful and not confusing!

P.S.  There was some more press coverage of the geyser paper; here are
two 
of them:

LiveScience.com <http://livescience.com/>  - 
http://www.livescience.com/environment/080603-old-faithful.html

Casper Star Tribune - 
http://www.trib.com/articles/2008/06/04/news/wyoming/doc48469fcdaa2b6592
0643
77.txt


Cheers,

----------------------------------------------------
Shaul Hurwitz
U.S. Geological Survey MS #439
345 Middlefield Rd.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Tel: (650) 329-4441
shaulh at usgs.gov
http://wwwrcamnl.wr.usgs.gov/hydrotherm/
-----------------------------------------------------


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