From mabell126 at bresnan.net Tue Feb 1 11:06:06 2005 From: mabell126 at bresnan.net (MA Bellingham) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:06:06 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Today's Billings Gazette Message-ID: In 2004, park officials reported 594 traffic accidents, 729 injuries, five fatalities, 62 search and rescue cases, nine poaching cases, 210 arrests, 453 court appearances and more than $3 million in property losses, including $100,000 damage to a park building that was hit by a semitrailer. The rest of the story is at http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/02/01/bui ld/wyoming/55-break-in-park.inc M.A. Bellingham mabell126 at bresnan.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050201/9bae7f04/attachment.html> From email.sheri at verizon.net Tue Feb 1 18:00:03 2005 From: email.sheri at verizon.net (sheri) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:00:03 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center References: <20050201050655.18BCD638050@halo.wwc.edu> Message-ID: <062801c508ca$e98f8440$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> I wonder if after sitting, they really 'do' need to flush... so to speak... *groan* *sheri* in eastern washington state ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Strasser To: 'geyser observation reports' Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center Tom Kearney wrote: <<<< I really don't think of "geyser flush" as directed towards the visitors personally. It describes the traffic jam just after the eruptions.>>>> I quote from the OFVEC document: "During the peak of the summer season, approximately 2,000 to 4,000 visitors patiently wait on the boardwalk surrounding Old Faithful Geyser for each eruption to occur. Once the eruption is over, these visitors will quickly move toward the visitor center, resulting in a phenomenon called "geyser flush."" Where do the visitors park their cars in the VC? :-) BTW, it's kind of funny that we're discussing one word in this document. I suggest you actually dissect what it says about the building itself, its site, and the way the visitors will approach it. Something is awfully odd about it. I do wish they'd added some views of the appearance of the front of the VC (that is, the side facing the geyser). All we see is the side facing... well, it isn't really the side facing the west parking lot, unlike what they say on page 22(see diagram on page 21) but more the side facing the geyser grill. And couldn't they find an object in nature more in keeping with Yellowstone and the northern Rockies than a "nautilus?" Maybe in Key West for a nautilus. In exchange, perhaps the Everglades will get a Visitor Center with the look of sinter, rhyolite, or granite. Paul Strasser _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050201/9821ec5a/attachment.html> From yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com Tue Feb 1 18:00:44 2005 From: yellowstonekaren at yahoo.com (Karen Low) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:00:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Seismographs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050202020044.30945.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com> 1) The University of Utah seismograph site doesn't show any thing for the right day or location. They may filter out seismic events extremely close to the surface, which is usually done to exclude artificial quakes such as blasts associated with mining. http://www.seis.utah.edu/data/fingerplan 2) Maybe the Giant platform shaking was caused by exicted gazers jumping around? (joke) Karen Low Jeffrey Cross wrote: Several questions: 1) When Giantess registers on the seismograph, how big of an eartuquake does it create? M 2.0? 1.0? 2) Years ago I remember hearing that prior to Giant Geyser's eruptions, the platform would shake and pound. Yet I have not heard anybody mention this for perhaps the last 15 years. Did this really happen? And if so, does it still happen? 3) Does anyone have the URL for the Yellowstone photo files? It appeared on the list last winter, but I have since lost it. Assuming I did not miss finding it on the GOSA website, it would be a nice additional link. Jeff Cross jacross at lamar.colostate.edu On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Mike Keller wrote: > Giantess was first seen at 0826ie by NPS Ranger Carolyn Loren (forgive me if > I misspelled your name!). From the seismograph it appears to have started > around 0200. _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050201/d13d6045/attachment.html> From conantb at swbell.net Tue Feb 1 18:09:19 2005 From: conantb at swbell.net (Eric Hatfield) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:09:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Seismographs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050202020919.97537.qmail@web80505.mail.yahoo.com> I very much like this argument / thought experiment. Now, will someone INTERPRET THE SEISMOGRAPH to confirm/rebut it? I don't know how, but if it's there, surely someone can! Gordon Bower wrote: On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Jeffrey Cross wrote: > Several questions: > > 1) When Giantess registers on the seismograph, how big of an eartuquake > does it create? M 2.0? 1.0? Around magnitude 0. Here are two arguments for it. First, a calculation: The Gutenberg-Richter relationship between the energy contained in seismic waves and resulting magnitude is log10 E = 11.8 + 1.5M, E in ergs. One of the good old-fashioned ways of testing a new seismograph after installing it in the field was sending one member of the field crew some distance away, having him swing a sledgehammer into the ground, and see if you picked it up or not. A geyser's thump is a naturally occurring sledgehammer. The mass of the hammerhead = the mass of the water above the steam bubble; the distance the hammer falls = the thickness of the steam bubble that collapses. How much energy is released when the water above slams down onto the water below? (Some of it turns into heat and sound, but its not a bad assumption to figure most of this energy is pounded into the ground.) A small geyser like West Triplet: less than 1 cubic meter of water, falling at most 10 centimeters: less than 1000 Joules = 10^10 ergs = magnitude -1.2 earthquake. Felt at a distance of only a few meters away. A generous estimate for Giantess: let's say a 5x5m area of the pool, lifted 30cm, by a bubble that collapses 3m from the surface. 220 kJ = 2.2x10^12 ergs = magnitude 0.3-0.4. Hydrothermal explosions at Shishaldin volcano the winter of 1999-2000 caused earthquakes about M0.7-M1.1; the air-wave report showed up on the seismograph traces 5km from the summit. Now, an armwaving rule-of-thumb argument that gives the same answer: With "real" earthquakes, M3s attract notice of people less than 10km away, M5 less than 100km away. The same pattern would mean M1: 1km, M0: 300m; M-1: 100m. Compare that to how far away from a geyser you are when you detect its thumps: West Triplet and Doublet: can only feel the thumbs right next to the pool; can hear them from the Grand prediction board and Crystal Spring / from Ear Spring and Sponge, under ideal conditions. Sawmill start: audible from the Frog Ponds to Grand Deep Blue: makes your knees wobble standing next to the pool, audible from the Fountain overlook Giantess: felt easily anywhere on Geyser Hill, audible from the Hamilton parking lot. GRB _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050201/46281e6b/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:43:23 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:43:23 EST Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center Message-ID: <157.49794f0c.2f31a65b@aol.com> In a message dated 2/1/2005 17:43:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: BTW, it's kind of funny that we're discussing one word in this document. I suggest you actually dissect what it says about the building itself, its site, and the way the visitors will approach it. Something is awfully odd about it. What really ought to be discussed is the need for a useable facility, which the existing VC decidedly is not -- from the visitor standpoint or from the employee standpoint. Take it from one who _had_ to stoop to avoid the ceiling when using the slidefile; who had to trundle up and down and up and down stairway to accomplsiuh anything; who replaced -- how many -- light bulbs in stupid "state of the art" prediction boards; who -- foo -- the new facility is needed, and nautilis or whatever be daxxxxed. Scott P.S. Really, is "Old Faithful Runoff" or even something as benign as "Geyser Rush" really worse than "Geyser Flush"? They alla refer to a crowd departing "The Geyser" at once. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050201/0f3a44cb/attachment.html> From gwimpey at mines.edu Wed Feb 2 09:00:23 2005 From: gwimpey at mines.edu (Greg Wimpey) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:00:23 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Three items In-Reply-To: <55.6ba6e3df.2f2c41f6@aol.com> References: <55.6ba6e3df.2f2c41f6@aol.com> Message-ID: <1107363623.8256.15.camel@bose.mines.edu> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:33, TSBryan at aol.com wrote: > > Item #3. I know blue-green algae (old name) and cyanobacteria (new > name) are for the same "critter". But I also understood that the > change from alga to bacteria had to do with cell nuclei (or lack > thereof), so that the names WOULD NOT be interchangable. There's my > real query. > A quick browse of Google results seems to show that "algae" is a rather ill-defined term. You are right in that cyanobacteria, like all bacteria, do not have a cell nucleus. Other forms of algae are eukaryotes (they have a nucleus). So, algae would be what biologists call a polyphyletic category: it contains organisms from different evolutionary lineages. I think it's probably a term of convenience for "any very simple plant-like organism". From udo.freund at lmco.com Wed Feb 2 15:30:13 2005 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:30:13 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] FOR SALE: Transactions Volume IX Message-ID: Here's something to consider buying with your tax refund. GOSA Transactions Volume IX (aka T9) is now available for sale. Prices per copy, which includes postage and handling to USA addresses, are as follows: $55.00 for all who are not GOSA associates / subscribers $33.00 for GOSA's regular level subscribers $29.70 for Family or Supporter level $28.05 for Sponsor level $26.40 for Benefactor level Postage elsewhere is slightly more. Please contact me for details. To verify subscriber level, please check the address label on your last Sput. Checks, along with name and address, should be mailed to: GOSA Store and Press 39237 Yellowstone Street Palmdale, CA 93551-4155 Thanks, Udo Freund -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050202/19134e78/attachment.html> From riozafiro at earthlink.net Wed Feb 2 18:54:45 2005 From: riozafiro at earthlink.net (Pat Snyder) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:54:45 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center In-Reply-To: <001201c50747$326a8000$c048b041@MikeKeller> References: <001201c50747$326a8000$c048b041@MikeKeller> Message-ID: <26e683aee3dfc46d77f2b6c31a030ea0@earthlink.net> Thank you very much, Mike. This is helpful! I was also curious if, as I had heard as a possibility, the lower DelaHam (or whatever) Store and parking lot were going to be closed for part of the '05 season. I heard the construction crews were taking over that space while working on the Inn. Pat Snyder On Jan 30, 2005, at 7:44 PM, Mike Keller wrote: > Here is what is happening at Xanterra properties: > > ? > > Old Faithful Inn open July 1 through September 11 > > Old Faithful Lodge open May 6 through October 2 > > Old Faithful Snowlodge open May 6 through October 23 > > Geyser Grill and Bear Den Gift Shop at Snowlodge open April 22 through > November 6 > > ? > > I don?t have Delaware North info with me. > > ? > > MK > > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On > Behalf Of Pat Snyder > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:09 PM > To: geyser observation reports > Subject: Re: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center > > ? > > Scott and everyone, thanks for bringing this up--I know we talked > about this when I was in Yellowstone last fall--but remind me, please. > What are the expected closures around OF this summer? As I recall, it > included the Lower Ham/Delaware Store and the parking lot, correct? > And all of the Inn is closed? I know it's early yet, but have dates > for these closures been announced somewhere? > Any info would be helpful. Thanks. > Pat Snyder > > > On Jan 27, 2005, at 3:30 PM, TSBryan at aol.com wrote: > > So this year we get to put up with OF Inn things, next year apparently > Inn and VC. > ? > Scot Bryan > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 5049 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050202/61386f5d/attachment.bin> From udo.freund at lmco.com Thu Feb 3 09:32:50 2005 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:32:50 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] National Park funding trend: USA Today Message-ID: Budgets chop away at park funds By Tom Kenworthy, USA TODAY Not so long ago, protecting visitors to Yosemite National Park from marauding bears might have been seen as an essential duty of the National Park Service. Not in these days of tight federal budgets. When it came to putting 2,000 new bear-proof food lockers at the popular California park's campgrounds and trailheads, the job fell to the Yosemite Fund, a private, non-profit group that provides millions every year to supplement government funding. With the cash-strapped park service struggling to keep up with basic needs, parks from the Sierra Nevada to the coast of Maine are increasingly relying on private donations from park "friends" groups such as the Yosemite Fund. Park-support groups used to provide the icing, but now it's the cake, too, says Bill Wade, former superintendent of Shenandoah National Park. "I don't think park superintendents like that one bit," he says, "but to keep the visitor centers open, they are having to dig deeper and deeper into that pot of private money." As they are being asked to do more - to the point of providing necessities such as new bathrooms and lifesaving defibrillators for park rangers - many of the 200 park-support groups find themselves straddling a fine line. They wonder if their charity is discouraging full funding of the park system by the federal government. "Philanthropists want to know that the government is doing its job, too," says Bob Hansen, the president of the Yosemite Fund, which has funneled $33 million to the park since 1988 The Yosemite Fund's most ambitious project: financing most of a $13.5 million overhaul of visitor services at Yosemite Falls, a park attraction. When it's dedicated in April, the project will have removed a crowded, exhaust-filled parking lot, replaced cracked asphalt trails leading to the falls, built a stone amphitheater and built interpretive exhibits explaining the natural history of the area. The increased burden on private donors is a concern, says Bill Lane, a former publishing company chairman and U.S. ambassador to Australia who contributed $1 million to the Yosemite Falls project. But, says Lane, "national parks represent the very best of what our country stands for" and deserve private philanthropy. Compared with many domestic spending programs, the National Park Service - which enjoys broad congressional support - has fared well in recent years. Since 1997, the service's basic operations budget has grown by about 5.7% a year. Yet annual funding is about $600 million less than what the National Parks Conservation Association estimates the system needs. On top of that is a construction and maintenance backlog estimated to be about $6 billion. "The park service as a whole is underfunded by about one-third," says the conservation association's senior vice president, Ron Tipton. In a 2003 study of private park funding, the General Accounting Office found that charity is growing to help fill the gap. Donations by private park-support groups swelled from $27 million in 1997 to more than $47 million in 2001, the GAO found, and about 90% of park service properties benefited. Acadia National Park, one of the park service's jewels, exemplifies the trend. Maintaining the luster of Acadia's 47,000 acres of rugged shoreline, mountains, ponds and woodlands on Maine's coast is dependent on a steady stream of private financing provided by Friends of Acadia. "Our job is to add value," says Ken Olson, who heads the organization. It began modestly 19 years ago by donating microscopes to park education programs and has since ballooned into a major source of funding. The $4.6 million that Friends of Acadia has donated to the park in the past decade has helped fund a propane-powered bus system visitors use to tour the park, rehabilitated the park's renowned carriage roads and financed Youth Conservation Corps crews who maintain hiking trails. To the south, at Great Smoky Mountains National Park on the North Carolina-Tennessee border, the story is similar. About 4,000 donors to Friends of the Smokies give more than $2 million a year for park improvements. A big chunk comes from the sales of specialty license plates issued by the states. Thanks, Udo Freund -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050203/0d9a6286/attachment.html> From seide1 at mindspring.com Thu Feb 3 14:47:37 2005 From: seide1 at mindspring.com (Stephen J. Eide) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:47:37 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] snow Message-ID: <4202AA09.DB81948C@mindspring.com> Hello all, I just had a quick question, what is the snow pack in Yellowstone this winter? Last time I heard it was about normal, but that was a while back. Thank you to whoever has the answer. Stephen Eide From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Wed Feb 2 16:05:50 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:05:50 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report 2/3/05 Message-ID: <000a01c50984$1fafb8b0$0648b041@MikeKeller> A few things: Fan and Mortar erupted overnight 2/02. The interval was longer than it has been recently, around 9 days. Grand had a 6.5 hour interval today. Plume is still erupting at 60-80 minute intervals. Giant continues to have strong hot periods every 7-15 hours. MYRIAD GROUP-Access to the Myriad Group requires pre-approved authorization from the NPS. Individuals must be NPS employees or volunteers or have other arrangements with the NPS to access the area. White Geyser has been very erratic this winter. High water levels in nearby UNNS2 are probably the cause for this. Intervals have varied from 3 to almost 40 minutes. Three Crater Geyser is erupting every 9-14 minutes. Middle Three Sister did not have an observed eruption during a 90 minute span today. Spectacle, Abuse, Round, and Myriad Geysers are dormant. Bell Geyser is acting as it has for the past several years with small minor eruptions coming every 8-45 minutes, and major eruptions every 1-5 hours. Trail and West Trail Geysers are full and boiling steadily to a few inches. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050202/de64a48a/attachment.html> From eydgrigg at att.net Thu Feb 3 17:00:14 2005 From: eydgrigg at att.net (eydgrigg at att.net) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:00:14 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center Message-ID: <020420050100.5034.4202C91C000E8ECD000013AA21587667550909079D090B970A@att.net> Scott, I think the focus on the single word has to do with attitude. Mainly the NPS one towards anyone outside the service. It speaks of a contempt for the general public. It affects thier consideration of outside suggestions and negetively affects developement. I have been a custodian most of my life(after majoring in planning with an emphasis on recreation in the seventies) but from past experience any suggestions I might have would be ignored. After all I am "not familiar" with the "special challenges" within the national parks. Whether that is true that is how it seems to be perceived. I have repeatedly tried to get on plannings' mailing list and to get up to date information on projects and I have been repeatedly ignored being just a visitor. Dave Grigg PS Yes the old building is terrible being a political structure and not thought through. My fear is that this one will be the same in that respect. dg -------------- Original message from TSBryan at aol.com: -------------- In a message dated 2/1/2005 17:43:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: BTW, it's kind of funny that we're discussing one word in this document. I suggest you actually dissect what it says about the building itself, its site, and the way the visitors will approach it. Something is awfully odd about it. What really ought to be discussed is the need for a useable facility, which the existing VC decidedly is not -- from the visitor standpoint or from the employee standpoint. Take it from one who _had_ to stoop to avoid the ceiling when using the slidefile; who had to trundle up and down and up and down stairway to accomplsiuh anything; who replaced -- how many -- light bulbs in stupid "state of the art" prediction boards; who -- foo -- the new facility is needed, and nautilis or whatever be daxxxxed. Scott P.S. Really, is "Old Faithful Runoff" or even something as benign as "Geyser Rush" really worse than "Geyser Flush"? They alla refer to a crowd departing "The Geyser" at once. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050204/51204251/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers From ynp4me at yahoo.com Thu Feb 3 17:09:46 2005 From: ynp4me at yahoo.com (V) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:09:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] snow In-Reply-To: <4202AA09.DB81948C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20050204010946.41543.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Snow, Temp and current conditions report on Yellowstone from the NPS http://www.nps.gov/yell/dailyreports/010105.htm Vicky --- "Stephen J. Eide" wrote: > Hello all, > I just had a quick question, what is the snow pack in Yellowstone > this > winter? Last time I heard it was about normal, but that was a while > back. > Thank you to whoever has the answer. > Stephen Eide __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Wed Feb 2 18:16:50 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:16:50 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] snow In-Reply-To: <4202AA09.DB81948C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001801c50996$6c7b2000$b749b041@MikeKeller> As of 2/01 we are 20" behind last year, and 43" behind two years ago. It has been a very mild winter with highs in the low 40's and lows at night from 0 to 10. MK -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen J. Eide Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:48 PM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] snow Hello all, I just had a quick question, what is the snow pack in Yellowstone this winter? Last time I heard it was about normal, but that was a while back. Thank you to whoever has the answer. Stephen Eide _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers From TSBryan at aol.com Fri Feb 4 08:27:55 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:27:55 EST Subject: [Geysers] snow Message-ID: <89.1fddba17.2f34fc8b@aol.com> In a message dated 2/3/2005 17:01:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, seide1 at mindspring.com writes: I just had a quick question, what is the snow pack in Yellowstone this winter? Last time I heard it was about normal, but that was a while back. Thank you to whoever has the answer. Go to http://www.nps.gov/yell/dailyreports/. Posted daily at about 0900, this includes snowpack depths at a bunch of places. Yesterday (Feb 3) for example, the depth at both Old Faithful and West Yellowstone was 23 inches. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050204/5a3d5846/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Fri Feb 4 08:32:51 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:32:51 EST Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center Message-ID: <1ee.34a2159a.2f34fdb3@aol.com> In a message dated 2/3/2005 17:01:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, eydgrigg at att.net writes: I think the focus on the single word has to do with attitude. Mainly the NPS one towards anyone outside the service. It speaks of a contempt for the general public. I don't think "contempt" is quite the right word, but certainly some (not too many, I hope) NPS employees do seem to adopt the "this is my park" attitude. Anyhow, yes, to use that phraseology was poor judgement. But it happened. The document is out. A new VC can't be bad, and I hope "we" all support it. (Also, how many times have "we" referred to the "Old Faithful Runoff" approaching Geyser Hill? I'll be tyou've said it, or at least thought it...) More importantly, we can desperately hope that "we" might actually be able to provide some input -- and have it listened to -- when it comes to the interpretive installations. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050204/81ce884b/attachment.html> From caroloren98 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 15:20:49 2005 From: caroloren98 at hotmail.com (carolyn loren) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:20:49 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] Snow and spring opening Message-ID: I don't check the archives to see what's been posted too often, so sorry for the delay. Snow-wise, we're at about 74% of the historic average the last time I checked. Some parts of Montana are at about 52% I've read. You can check Snotel data at: www.wrcc.dri.edu/snotel.htm Also, our opening/closing dates memo says that the lower store will open June 3 and close September 11. Upper store dates are listed as May 6 through October 16. The Inn dates are accurate in the memo, so let's hope they all are. Fan & Mortar erupted again this morning, 2/4, at 1025; Michael Lang got soaked this time. And Beehive erupted conveniently to help conclude my geyser talk, at 1248. Castle's having lots of minors... Plume lengthened to 65-70 minute intervals or so after Giantess' eruption. Carolyn Loren (right spellling Mike) OFVC From einstein at usa.net Fri Feb 4 22:43:32 2005 From: einstein at usa.net (Gary Einstein) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:43:32 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Terminal Geyser and Daisey/Splendid Movies Message-ID: <42046B14.1060201@usa.net> After many years, I am finally taking my home videos and transfering them to DVDs. I found a 1997 Daisey/ Splendid dual from 1997 and Terminal Geyser in Lassen NP that may be of some interest to some. I have converted the clips to wmv format if anyome is interested: http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/greinstein at prodigy.net/lst?.dir=/Geysers&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ Gary Einstein From fanandmortar at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 23:09:54 2005 From: fanandmortar at hotmail.com (Tara Cross) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:09:54 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] OF Visitor Education Center In-Reply-To: <1ee.34a2159a.2f34fdb3@aol.com> Message-ID: >More importantly, we can desperately hope that "we" might actually be able >to >provide some input -- and have it listened to -- when it comes to the >interpretive installations. The contract has already been awarded and work has been underway for many months now on the new interpretive exhibits for the OFVC. I don't know if another comment period will be available once the exhibits are prepared. I'm glad to see that many members of this list have taken a look at the OFVC document. I know it doesn't feel like your comments are going to make a difference, but please send them anyway. This winter as you long for the park, put pen on paper (or fingers on keyboard) and take advantage of this comment period. The Public Affairs office really does work to follow up on comments. You may receive a response you don't like, but if you don't write, you won't hear anything at all. I worked in the park for 3 1/2 years and heard many of you voice your concerns about the park budget, about ever-inflating lodging prices, about construction projects, and about resource management problems. The NPS has given the gazers a once-a-year meeting to voice our concerns, but it doesn't have to end there. You can write about the things that matter to you and those letters are read and responded to. The public comment periods are the most important time to write, but you can write on any issue that matters to you. I've listed the Superintendent's address below. Superintendent's Office Yellowstone National Park P.O. Box 168 Yellowstone National Park, WY 82190 --Tara Cross fanandmortar at hotmail.com From ksleany at cox.net Sat Feb 5 10:30:56 2005 From: ksleany at cox.net (Kevin & Sherri Leany) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:30:56 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Steamboat Springs Message-ID: <001f01c50bb0$d55a9440$6400a8c0@KevinSherri> The State of Nevada Department of Transportation has scanned the old State highway maps and placed them on their web site. The scans are large, but the quality is not real good, however the 1955 map has a picture of a geyser erupting at Steamboat Springs that may be of intrest. The link follows: https://www.nevadadot.com/traveler/maps/historical/ Kevin Leany ksleany at cox.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050205/d98a7273/attachment.html> From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Sat Feb 5 08:55:18 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:55:18 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report 2/05/05 KGTF Message-ID: <000001c50ba3$87357710$94370543@MikeKeller> We finally had some snow here today. A couple changes on Geyser Hill since Giantess-Copper Kettle is in overflow. There is a newer steam vent that is having periodic steam phase eruptions between Sponge Geyser and Boardwalk Geyser. This vent has been there a while, but the forced steam phase stuff with fine spray is fairly recent. The small vent in the runoff from Crested Pool near the footbridge below Castle was erupting to a foot today. Terra Cotta "A" and "B" were also active. Sawmill continues to dominate the Sawmill Group. The entire area was in a deep drain at 1050, and Uncertain erupted between 1050 and 1300. Grand was 1155 (?/?2*Q) today. Rift was seen at 1225ns. Beauty continues to overflow. Oblong's crater was empty at 1115. There was a Marathon recovery hot period at Giant at 1209. Ninety seconds into the hot period Mastiff was surging up to 5 feet and India was under an inch of water. Mastiff continued to pour during the hot period. The restart began about 20 seconds after Feather quit, with vertical surging over the back of the cone and Turtle erupting to about 2 feet for close to 4 minutes, but no Giant. Fan and Mortar erupted at 1025 on 2/03, an interval of 2.5 days or so. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050205/abc8fa79/attachment.html> From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Sat Feb 5 11:39:03 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:39:03 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Corrections to 2/05 posting Message-ID: <000001c50bba$5d04b7a0$e548b041@MikeKeller> Fan and Mortar erupted on 2/04, not 2/03. The interval was about 2.5 days and the eruption was seen by Mike Lang. The Giant hot period on 2/05 lasted 9m 18s. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050205/e7bd6381/attachment.html> From riozafiro at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 16:46:47 2005 From: riozafiro at earthlink.net (Pat Snyder) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:46:47 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers In-Reply-To: <000001c50bba$5d04b7a0$e548b041@MikeKeller> References: <000001c50bba$5d04b7a0$e548b041@MikeKeller> Message-ID: Recently I bought a book called "Weird U.S.A." by Mark Moran and Mark Scheurman. It lists strange things seen and heard throughout the country, much of it stuff like hauntings, odd museums, strange collections and the like. However, one item is about Yellowstone, and is called the "Yellowstone Whispers". They are described as a "...strange natural phenomenon that takes place in the high country above Yellowstone Lake." It's a whistling sound that can last up to 30 seconds--usually between the hours of dawn and 10 a.m. The book claims early trappers and Native Americans also knew about it (no record of how this was documented listed). Has anyone heard of this legend/story before? Has anyone heard the whispers? Could it be something thermal causing this sound? Seems likely to me that it could be a fumarole or the like. Anyway, just curious. Thanks! Pat Snyder From TSBryan at aol.com Sun Feb 6 21:28:48 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:28:48 EST Subject: [Geysers] Terminal Geyser and Daisey/Splendid Movies Message-ID: <100.c86a942.2f385690@aol.com> In a message dated 2/6/2005 15:13:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, einstein at usa.net writes: I found a 1997 Daisey/ Splendid dual from 1997 and Terminal Geyser in Lassen NP that may be of some interest to some. I have converted the clips to wmv format if anyome is interested: To Gary specifically on this one, but also to all in general, we still have this concept of the GOSA Archives -- might Gary be able to provide a DVD of his footage for us to donate (eventually) to the the YNP Archives? T. Scott Bryan 72-779 Fleetwood Circle Palm Desert, CA 92260-9389 (760) 346-3998 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/9db4cef0/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 7 09:05:39 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:05:39 EST Subject: [Geysers] 1955 Nevada map Message-ID: <6.3e37b792.2f38f9e3@aol.com> Nice photo of a geyser at Steamboat Hot Springs. So what geysers is it? I'll be interested in hearing what Paul and Suzanne Strasser have to say (did anybody else now on this list ever see a Steamboat geyser?), but here is my guess: The map is the 1955 edition, so no doubt was actually produced during 1954. The eruption therefore must have occurred sometime in or before 1954. The eruption is remarkably tall. How tall? The geyser is well beyong the person, so I am guessing the eruption to be not less than 20 feet high, and probably well over that. Other than the really big geysers seen in the 1850-1870 period (up to 60 feet or more), the largest have generally been 12 to 15 feet, the notable exception being Spring #12, which Don White documented to 25 feet in December 1949 to January 1951. OOOOh, right time frame. There were other geysers then, too, but the largest (#13 and #24w) reached that 12 feet or so. Well, anyhow, looking at the background in the photo, the view is torard the west. So I thinmk the eruption shows #24w. Damn, it was nice! Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/189ba9bf/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 7 09:05:50 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:05:50 EST Subject: [Geysers] Important history Message-ID: In a southern cotton field where lived two boll weevils: Victor, who was immense, arrogant and overbearing, and Wes, who was a small, introverted, likable weevil. Whenever they met, Victor delighted in taunting little Wes, openly sneering at him and belittling him in ever weevil way. One day little Wes asked a passing jaybird, "Why is it that I am a victim of such unjust discrimination?" "Because," replied the jaybird, "you are the lesser of two weevils." "Bolls!" cired little Wes. Unable to tolerate his lot any longer, he flew off to the north country where he soon infested a frontier outpost. In joyous celebration of his courageous move, the townsfolk promptly named the place WES WEEVIL'S TOWN. The name has since been corrupted into the present "West Yellowstone," but exactly when does not seem to be documented in either the town library or the nearby national park's where there are geysers [moderator: note keyword "geysers"] archives. -------- The above being one of the little known true stories promulgated by the Wretched Mess News -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/9ff6b6c9/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 7 09:05:45 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:05:45 EST Subject: [Geysers] Exhibits new OFVEC Message-ID: (No doubt I did something stoopid, but none of the e-mail I received yesterday was saved by my computer, so...) Tara Cross wrote that work on the new interpretive exhibits has been undrway for months. Yes. Did I tell the tale about September-October 2002 (yes, that far back) a gentleman in New York City contacted me. He is a designer for a firm that has produced a great many interpretive displays for government agencies, including NPS. He had been invited to attend a meeting in YNP regarding the new OFVEC and, supposedly, would then be in a position to make a bid on the job (and wished for my "expert" input). The last I heard from him was a letter filled with disgust at Yellowstone inviting him, and prepresentatives of other design corporations, to a meeting in the park when, in fact, the contract has essentially already bee granted... He discussed a lawsuit, but I doubt that that ever happened., Well, so all that is in the past. The designs are well in-progress. But does that mean there can't be input, the opportunity to update, to modify, to correct? Evidently there will be no such opportunity. But therefore everybody had better believe: if I find new interpretive exhibits that have (for example) backwards photos (such as the existing photos at Grotto and Riverside), or a flat-out wrong photo (such as the photo of Opalescent Pool on the Biscuit Basin sign), or incorrect/scientifically invalid statements, or any such et cetera, you can be very certain that I will get as noisy as I possibly can. And it won't be confined to this list, nor to Wyoming. Now, please, two follow-up items: 1. So now the Bush Administratioin is announcing its proposed budget for the next fiscal year, filled with huge cuts in some programs including, I'd almost be willing to bet, the NPS. If so, does this in any way affect the funding for the new OFVEC? 2. Tara encourages people to write, saying "those letters are read and responded to." Responded to who? In the past two or three years, I have sent comments to the park Supterintendent using the official form that is available in the visitor centers. My understanding from when I worked in the park, and I would presume still, is that any such submission is supposed to receive a written reply (probably not from the Superintendent, but at least from somebody in Admin). I have not received any reply whatsoever, including no reply to my on-the-form complaint about not receiving replies! Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/38251591/attachment.html> From crose61514 at wyoming.com Mon Feb 7 17:49:47 2005 From: crose61514 at wyoming.com (Cindy Rose) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:49:47 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers References: <000001c50bba$5d04b7a0$e548b041@MikeKeller> Message-ID: <006301c50d80$7907daa0$badde3cc@VAIO> Pat and List--I have a book about wierd natural phenomena and it devotes an entire chapter to odd noises including the Yellowstone Lake Whispers. My father, who canoed the Lake as well as Shoshone and Lewis Lakes as a kid, had never heard them, but he admitted to beginning his fishing day a bit later than the early morning hours when the Whispers were mostly heard. I have been going to post this question for months now and Pat beat me to it. Scott, that was a stoopid story about the weevils. ;8>) From thedulcimerlady at juno.com Mon Feb 7 18:10:14 2005 From: thedulcimerlady at juno.com (Lucille Reilly) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers Message-ID: <20050207.191646.-368577.3.TheDulcimerLady@juno.com> Nope, can't tell you about YNP phenomena, but it sounds like these are the same guys who publish "Weird New Jersey", about similar stuff in my home state! Lucille Reilly On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:46:47 -0800 Pat Snyder writes: > Recently I bought a book called "Weird U.S.A." by Mark Moran and Mark > > Scheurman. It lists strange things seen and heard throughout the > country, much of it stuff like hauntings, odd museums, strange > collections and the like. However, one item is about Yellowstone, > and is called the "Yellowstone Whispers". > > They are described as a "...strange natural phenomenon that takes > place > in the high country above Yellowstone Lake." It's a whistling sound > > that can last up to 30 seconds--usually between the hours of dawn > and > 10 a.m. The book claims early trappers and Native Americans also > knew > about it (no record of how this was documented listed). > > Has anyone heard of this legend/story before? Has anyone heard the > whispers? Could it be something thermal causing this sound? Seems > likely to me that it could be a fumarole or the like. Anyway, just > curious. > Thanks! > Pat Snyder > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:22:00 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:22:00 EST Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers Message-ID: In a message dated 2/7/2005 17:38:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, riozafiro at earthlink.net writes: They are described as a "...strange natural phenomenon that takes place in the high country above Yellowstone Lake." It's a whistling sound that can last up to 30 seconds--usually between the hours of dawn and 10 a.m. The book claims early trappers and Native Americans also knew about it (no record of how this was documented listed). Pat: How nice that you brought this up, as I just days ago encountered my memo to the NPS about my own experience... As many others know, this is the "Lake Sound" that goes by a great many names, and has been documented very often. I tended to disbelieve -- until I experienced it myself. I was camped (legally) at the old patrol cabin site at Shoshone Geyser Basin -- alone, unfortunately -- and I remember it vividly. The time was in the evening. A ferocious thunderstorm with really scarey lightning had recently passed by, and to the east the clouds with probably the biggest (s'cuse the thought) pendulous mammary cloud bottoms I've ever seen were tinged with vivid red-gold from the setting sun. That in itself was a strange sight. And while I was standing in the North Group somewhere near Knobby Geyser, I heard it coming. Yes, heard it _coming_ toward me. From the lake. A deep moaning sound that I can best likened to a French horn blowing a steady low note. It was freaky, until I realized what it was. Then it was fantastic. It honestly passed overhead and faded into the west. And it was over too soon. Start to finish, probably something between 5 and 10 seconds. A few minutes later it repeated, and then again and again three or four progressively fainter times. Most decidedly, it has nothing whatsoever to do with hot springs of any kind. I guess it must be some kind of resonance between clouds and a broad, long open fetch of lake. At least in "my" case. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050208/a3d5ab0c/attachment.html> From upperbasin at comcast.net Mon Feb 7 22:27:26 2005 From: upperbasin at comcast.net (Paul Strasser) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 23:27:26 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] 1955 Nevada map In-Reply-To: <6.3e37b792.2f38f9e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050208062801.1DF696382B0@halo.wwc.edu> It looks a little like 42W (not 24W), but I don't recall the vegetation-covered area immediately behind it. But then, I observed it in the mid-80s, thirty years after this photo was taken. The terrace was quite active for most of this time, so changes in runoff and heat could affect the vegetation. I saw naturally occurring eruptions from 42w over 25 feet high, and when it erupted in conjunction with the long fissure just to its east (I think it was #11) the effect was one of the most remarkable of all geysers I've seen - a sheet of water about eight feet high and 20 feet long, and next to it an Aurum-like geyser. 'twas a very cool effect. Paul Strasser _____ From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of TSBryan at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 10:06 AM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] 1955 Nevada map Nice photo of a geyser at Steamboat Hot Springs. So what geysers is it? I'll be interested in hearing what Paul and Suzanne Strasser have to say (did anybody else now on this list ever see a Steamboat geyser?), but here is my guess: The map is the 1955 edition, so no doubt was actually produced during 1954. The eruption therefore must have occurred sometime in or before 1954. The eruption is remarkably tall. How tall? The geyser is well beyong the person, so I am guessing the eruption to be not less than 20 feet high, and probably well over that. Other than the really big geysers seen in the 1850-1870 period (up to 60 feet or more), the largest have generally been 12 to 15 feet, the notable exception being Spring #12, which Don White documented to 25 feet in December 1949 to January 1951. OOOOh, right time frame. There were other geysers then, too, but the largest (#13 and #24w) reached that 12 feet or so. Well, anyhow, looking at the background in the photo, the view is torard the west. So I thinmk the eruption shows #24w. Damn, it was nice! Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/b5ae95b5/attachment.html> From fanandmortar at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 22:39:32 2005 From: fanandmortar at hotmail.com (Tara Cross) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:39:32 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Exhibits new OFVEC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I fear that I may have given the impression in my last post that I did not think that members of this list do not already write their share of letters and comment forms. On the contrary, it is because I know that many of you do that I wanted to point it out to the rest who may want to but haven't. Yes, every letter is *supposed* to get responded to. And yes, it is not usually by the Superintendent herself but by someone in the Administration from the appropriate office (Public Affairs, Planning, Concessions, etc.). I am not as certain about the official comment forms. They are supposed to follow up quickly on safety concerns, and in the one instance when my comment dealt with safety I actually got a phone call in response. -Tara Cross fanandmortar at hotmail.com From mabell126 at bresnan.net Tue Feb 8 07:11:33 2005 From: mabell126 at bresnan.net (MA Bellingham) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 08:11:33 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Today's Billings Gazette Message-ID: Speaking of the Inn and new VC.. http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1 &display=rednews/2005/02/08/build/wyoming/35-ystone-funding.inc MA M.A. Bellingham mabell126 at bresnan.net http://yellowstonephotoworks.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050208/18cc292e/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Tue Feb 8 07:41:23 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:41:23 EST Subject: [Geysers] NPS budget Message-ID: No doubt others have seen this, too -- per today's newspaper, the FY2006 budget cuts NPS funding by about 3%. Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050208/05f8691d/attachment.html> From jochapple at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 08:53:12 2005 From: jochapple at earthlink.net (Janet Chapple) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 08:53:12 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers In-Reply-To: References: <000001c50bba$5d04b7a0$e548b041@MikeKeller> Message-ID: Hello Pat and all, This sound you mentioned is sometimes described in the literature before about 1920 or so as something like an electrical whine in the sky. A number of people who were out on the lake in the early days seem to have heard it. The phenomenon was even studied by a scientist or two, but no source for it was found. I've asked Lee Whittlesey if he knew of any recent reports of this, but he didn't. I've been keeping my eye out for anything about it in more recent literature, but no luck. Seems unlikely that it would be a fumarole, but what it is/was is a true mystery. If anyone has heard it in recent years, I'd sure like to know about it. --- Pat, on another subject, I'm enjoying looking at the February pages of my Yellowstone Association calendar with your picture of Clepsydra there! Cheers, Janet Chapple http://www.yellowstonetreasures.com ------- On Feb 6, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Pat Snyder wrote: > Recently I bought a book called "Weird U.S.A." by Mark Moran and Mark > Scheurman. It lists strange things seen and heard throughout the > country, much of it stuff like hauntings, odd museums, strange > collections and the like. However, one item is about Yellowstone, and > is called the "Yellowstone Whispers". > > They are described as a "...strange natural phenomenon that takes > place in the high country above Yellowstone Lake." It's a whistling > sound that can last up to 30 seconds--usually between the hours of > dawn and 10 a.m. The book claims early trappers and Native Americans > also knew about it (no record of how this was documented listed). > > Has anyone heard of this legend/story before? Has anyone heard the > whispers? Could it be something thermal causing this sound? Seems > likely to me that it could be a fumarole or the like. Anyway, just > curious. > Thanks! > Pat Snyder > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > From udo.freund at lmco.com Tue Feb 8 06:53:28 2005 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 06:53:28 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] YNP gets more funding in federal budget Message-ID: Today's Billings Gazette had the following article: Yellowstone Park gets more funding By MIKE STARK Of The Gazette Staff Yellowstone National Park will get more money for day-to-day operations this year and funding for three major construction projects under the Bush administration's 2006 budget. The budget request announced Monday will increase Yellowstone's operating budget from $29.8 million last year to $30.7 million for the 2006 fiscal year, which begins in October. The budget also includes $11.2 million to replace the visitor center at Old Faithful, $11.1 million to restore the west wing of the Old Faithful Inn and $4.1 million to replace the wastewater treatment plant at Madison. Despite tightening on domestic spending, the National Park Service's $1.7 billion operating budget increases by $50.5 million in the 2006 proposed budget. The funding includes raises for Park Service employees. "The operation budgets fared very well," said Elaine Sevy, a spokeswoman at Park Service headquarters in Washington, D.C. But the overall Park Service budget of $2.2 billion would drop by $65.6 million, about 3 percent, because of deep cuts in matching grants to states for projects promoting outdoor recreation. Park advocates said they were pleased to see increases for operating costs and personnel, but concerned that funding for the Park Service system still falls short. "We still have a long way to go to meet the needs of the parks," said Blake Selzer, a legislative representative for the National Parks Conservation Association. The group issued a study in 2003 showing that the park system operates with $600 million less than it needs each year. Yellowstone is underfunded by about $22.7 million annually, the group said. Operating budgets for most national parks increased by nearly 5 percent in the 2005 budget. Selzer said there was some concern that those improvements would be rolled back for 2006, especially in light of financial belt-tightening this year. Instead, the day-to-day budget for parks would increase $50 million under the 2006 budget, including $40 million in pay and benefits for employees. At Grand Teton, the operating budget would increase from $10.1 million last year to $10.4 million in 2006. Also, $1.7 million would be provided to rehabilitate 17 historic buildings. Glacier would see its operating budget increase from $11.5 million to $11.9 million. Officials said the 2006 budget also would help put a dent in the long list of maintenance projects in national parks. Several years ago, President Bush vowed to provide $4.9 billion for the maintenance backlog, which includes work on trails, campgrounds, sewer systems and visitor centers. The 2006 budget includes $1.1 billion for those projects. So far, more than 4,000 projects on the list have been completed but the true scope of the backlog may not be known for another two years because parks across the country are conducting an assessment of the work that needs to be done, Sevy said. Udo Freund -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050208/0e605dec/attachment.html> From caros at aros.net Mon Feb 7 19:57:15 2005 From: caros at aros.net (Karen Webb) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:57:15 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Terminal Geyser and Daisey/Splendid Movies In-Reply-To: <42046B14.1060201@usa.net> References: <42046B14.1060201@usa.net> Message-ID: <4208389B.3000401@aros.net> From Karen Webb Just checking on the validity of this link, as it opens my browser window, which then says "done" with a blank screen. It doesn't look suspicious but I do notice it ends with the same http stuff as it has at the beginning. If I just infected my computer after several weeks of trying to get it to run right after a hard drive demise, I'm shooting myself, then billing the list for the funeral... Karen Gary Einstein wrote: > After many years, I am finally taking my home videos and transfering > them to DVDs. > > I found a 1997 Daisey/ Splendid dual from 1997 and Terminal Geyser in > Lassen NP that may be of some interest to some. I have converted the > clips to wmv format if anyome is interested: > > http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/greinstein at prodigy.net/lst?.dir=/Geysers&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ > > > Gary Einstein > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > > From kluketina at hnpl.net Tue Feb 8 11:40:33 2005 From: kluketina at hnpl.net (Katherine) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:40:33 +1300 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009f01c50e16$0daf7880$24db1bca@kpc> Although this article is about sand dunes, its explanation for singing dunes may somehow be extrapolated to the Yellowstone case. regards Katherine Luketina Dunes are alive with the sand of music 18 December 2004 Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition Jenny Hogan SOME roar, some boom, others squeak and a few even sing. They entranced Marco Polo when he crossed the Gobi desert in the 13th century, and references to their mysterious sounds can be found in 9th-century Chinese literature. Now one physicist has put forward an explanation for why sand dunes hit the right notes. "Singing dunes constitute one of the most puzzling and impressive phenomena I have ever encountered," says Bruno Andreotti of the University of Paris 7. Andreotti has been studying the crescent-shaped sand dunes of the Sahara desert in Morocco, one of around 30 locations in the world where dunes are known to sing. The Saharan dunes hum like a low-flying, twin-engined jet, and can be heard kilometres away. Elsewhere, dune sounds have been likened to drums, foghorns and trumpets, among other things. In all cases, the sound seems to be triggered by sand avalanching down the sides of the dunes. But no one knew why the tumbling sand produces a resonant note and not just a messy rumble. To find out, Andreotti deliberately started avalanches in Saharan sand dunes to set them singing. He then measured the vibrations in the sand bed and in the air around the dune, and used the data to figure out how the sounds were being produced. He argues that the cascading layer of sand behaves like the membrane of a loudspeaker, moving up and down at a frequency that generates audible sound. "The measurement clearly shows the existence of this motion," he says. The amplitude of the vibrations is about 0.07 millimetres - roughly a quarter of the width of one grain of sand - so although they are not visible to the naked eye, if you lie down on the dune you can feel them, says Andreotti. But there's still the matter of explaining why the cascading layer vibrates. You would expect the sand grains in an avalanche to collide randomly, creating a kind of "ssshhhrr" sound. According to Andreotti, however, as the tumbling grains drum on the surface of the dune, the collisions set up a surface wave that guides the motion of the falling sand, producing the characteristic sound (Physical Review Letters, vol 93, p 238001). Not everyone agrees. St?phane Douady from L'Ecole Normale Sup?rieure in Paris, who studied the Moroccan singing dunes with Andreotti, has developed a different interpretation. He agrees that the sliding layer of sand creates the sound as it vibrates, but says it is the sound of individual collisions reflecting among the sand grains that synchronises their movement. Douady has submitted his results for publication. ?The cascading sand behaves like the membrane of a loudspeaker moving at a frequency that generates audible sound?Neither mechanism explains why only a few dunes in each desert can sing. Melany Hunt of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, who studies singing dunes in the US, suspects that the internal structure of the dune could also play a part. Her team's radar measurements reveal a hard layer about a metre or so beneath the surface of the singing dunes. This layer might resonate like the soundbox of a musical instrument, amplifying particular frequencies. "We have always thought it is a lot more complicated than what's going on at the surface," Hunt told New Scientist. Her team is still collecting data to back up this idea. Until the rival theories are sorted out, Marco Polo's explanation will have to suffice: in accounts of his travels through the Gobi, he ascribed the strange noises to spirits of the desert. >From issue 2478 of New Scientist magazine, 18 December 2004, page 8 > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu]On Behalf > Of Pat Snyder > Sent: Monday, 7 February 2005 13:47 > To: geyser observation reports > Subject: Re: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers > > > Recently I bought a book called "Weird U.S.A." by Mark Moran and Mark > Scheurman. It lists strange things seen and heard throughout the > country, much of it stuff like hauntings, odd museums, strange > collections and the like. However, one item is about Yellowstone, and > is called the "Yellowstone Whispers". > > They are described as a "...strange natural phenomenon that takes place > in the high country above Yellowstone Lake." It's a whistling sound > that can last up to 30 seconds--usually between the hours of dawn and > 10 a.m. The book claims early trappers and Native Americans also knew > about it (no record of how this was documented listed). > > Has anyone heard of this legend/story before? Has anyone heard the > whispers? Could it be something thermal causing this sound? Seems > likely to me that it could be a fumarole or the like. Anyway, just > curious. > Thanks! > Pat Snyder > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Mon Feb 7 16:55:13 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:55:13 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report 2/06/05 Message-ID: <000001c50d78$e0189070$2d48b041@MikeKeller> Not much different today. Castle had a major eruption at 1006ie. Grand was 0950 (?/?1C) today. Sawmill was in eruption every time I passed by. There was a strong Giant Hot Period sometime between 0700 and 0830. Following this there was nothing from 0940 until a 6m39s hot period at 1154. Grotto was seen 0951ie and stopped at 1050. Oblong erupted at 1106. MK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050207/f84dcd2f/attachment.html> From riozafiro at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 19:34:30 2005 From: riozafiro at earthlink.net (Pat Snyder) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:34:30 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers In-Reply-To: <20050207.191646.-368577.3.TheDulcimerLady@juno.com> References: <20050207.191646.-368577.3.TheDulcimerLady@juno.com> Message-ID: Thank you everyone who wrote in response to the Yellowstone Whispers!!! Your responses really helped clarify the legend, although there are more questions than real answer, It's a very cool phenomenon made even more striking by the lack of any confirmed physical explanation for it. Your story about the Whispers was especially incredible, Scott--the thunderstorm, then sunset and the sound. Maybe someday I will be fortunate enough to hear the Whispers--although right now, I'd be happy with just enough luck to see Fan and Mortar for the first time. And yes, Lucille, it is the same authors that wrote Weird New Jersey--they now have a book out called Weird U.S.A. Glad you liked my photo of Clepsydra and Spasm in the calendar, Janet. Much appreciated. I was very excited it was chosen for publication. Pat Snyder On Feb 7, 2005, at 6:10 PM, Lucille Reilly wrote: > Nope, can't tell you about YNP phenomena, but it sounds like these are > the same guys who publish "Weird New Jersey", about similar stuff in my > home state! > > Lucille Reilly > > On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:46:47 -0800 Pat Snyder > writes: From TSBryan at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:03:45 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:03:45 EST Subject: [Geysers] 1955 Nevada map Message-ID: In a message dated 2/8/2005 17:43:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, upperbasin at comcast.net writes: It looks a little like 42W (not 24W), but I don?t recall the vegetation-covered area immediately behind it. I immediately thought of 42w but then, primarily because of the vegetation on the slope behing, felt that that slope is much too close to the geyser -- can't be 42w. (My opinion, which probably doesan't matter anymore, anyhow.) Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050208/890cc372/attachment.html> From yiams at avalon.net Tue Feb 8 21:41:09 2005 From: yiams at avalon.net (Randall Williams) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 05:41:09 +0000 Subject: [Geysers] yellowstone whispers Message-ID: Pat, I believe there's a mention of this in Tim Cahill's latest book _Lost in My Own Backyard_. They're expanded essays adapted from National Geographic Adventure/Traveler magazine(s). <> However, one item is about Yellowstone, and is called the "Yellowstone Whispers". <> From mabell126 at bresnan.net Wed Feb 9 07:04:04 2005 From: mabell126 at bresnan.net (MA Bellingham) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:04:04 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette Message-ID: http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1 &display=rednews/2005/02/09/build/wyoming/35-snowcoaches.inc Also if you didn't know a new "Windows into Wonderland" electronic field trip for students on the "hotspot" has been implemented. http://www.windowsintowonderland.org/ MA M.A. Bellingham mabell126 at bresnan.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050209/4cf529b8/attachment.html> From Debbie.Sjodin at spl.org Wed Feb 9 09:43:23 2005 From: Debbie.Sjodin at spl.org (Debbie Sjodin) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:43:23 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer Message-ID: A self-published book on the work of Robert C. Reamer, architect of the Old Faithful Inn, and apparantly many other Yellowstone buildings has just come to my attention and I thought I'd pass it along. Sad to say I don't know the woman who works in the Inn and giver tours on its history but it looks pretty interesting Quinn, Ruth. Weaver of dreams : the life and architecture of Robert C. Reamer. published Gardiner, Mt by Ruth and Leslie Quinn, 2004. 199 p. many illustrations $39.95 From greinstein at prodigy.net Wed Feb 9 10:50:30 2005 From: greinstein at prodigy.net (Gary Einstein) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:50:30 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Terminal Geyser and Daisey/Splendid Movies In-Reply-To: <4208389B.3000401@aros.net> References: <42046B14.1060201@usa.net> <4208389B.3000401@aros.net> Message-ID: <420A5B76.8090708@prodigy.net> The posting is legit--no viruses, etc. It's been done to me & I would not subject another to that mess. If you want to see the short clips, try going in through http://briefcase.yahoo.com/greinstein at prodigy.net then clicking the geyser section.. You can always download then virus check before running any file. Gary Einstein Karen Webb wrote: > From Karen Webb > Just checking on the validity of this link, as it opens my browser > window, which then says "done" with a blank screen. It doesn't look > suspicious but I do notice it ends with the same http stuff as it has > at the beginning. If I just infected my computer after several weeks > of trying to get it to run right after a hard drive demise, I'm > shooting myself, then billing the list for the funeral... > Karen > > Gary Einstein wrote: > >> After many years, I am finally taking my home videos and transfering >> them to DVDs. >> >> I found a 1997 Daisey/ Splendid dual from 1997 and Terminal Geyser >> in Lassen NP that may be of some interest to some. I have converted >> the clips to wmv format if anyome is interested: >> >> http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/greinstein at prodigy.net/lst?.dir=/Geysers&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ >> >> >> Gary Einstein >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geysers mailing list >> Geysers at wwc.edu >> https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > > From thedulcimerlady at juno.com Wed Feb 9 10:11:03 2005 From: thedulcimerlady at juno.com (Lucille Reilly) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:11:03 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers Message-ID: <20050209.151303.-323739.0.TheDulcimerLady@juno.com> Hi, VERY interesting article. Perhaps in the YNP case, the wind might catch the tree needles (or something else) in such a way as to create sound? Many years ago, I performed an outdoor concert in a New Jersey state park bordering the Delaware Bay. There were storms all around the area that day, producing a strong enough wind to set the F# strings on my hammered dulcimer into vibration. I have played many outdoor concerts in the 20 years or so since, some in windy conditions, but haven't encountered this "voluntary singing" again in all that time. Lucille Reilly On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:40:33 +1300 "Katherine" writes: > Although this article is about sand dunes, its explanation for > singing dunes > may somehow be extrapolated to the Yellowstone case. > > regards > Katherine Luketina > > Dunes are alive with the sand of music > 18 December 2004 > Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition > Jenny Hogan From mabell126 at bresnan.net Wed Feb 9 19:36:16 2005 From: mabell126 at bresnan.net (MA Bellingham) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:36:16 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Leslie and Ruth are friend to many on this list! Just one of the rabble.... MA MA Bellingham -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of Debbie Sjodin Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:43 AM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer A self-published book on the work of Robert C. Reamer, architect of the Old Faithful Inn, and apparantly many other Yellowstone buildings has just come to my attention and I thought I'd pass it along. Sad to say I don't know the woman who works in the Inn and giver tours on its history but it looks pretty interesting Quinn, Ruth. Weaver of dreams : the life and architecture of Robert C. Reamer. published Gardiner, Mt by Ruth and Leslie Quinn, 2004. 199 p. many illustrations $39.95 _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers From s_krause at mtco.com Thu Feb 10 05:15:30 2005 From: s_krause at mtco.com (Steve Krause) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:15:30 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Whispers In-Reply-To: <> References: <> Message-ID: <200502101315.j1ADFUS17879@webmail1.mtco.com> My wife had a slightly different analogy after reading the descriptions. Perhaps it's something analagous to blowing across the lip of a bottle - a higher altitude wind with a well defined boundary layer, and the caldera itself forming a resonance chamber for it to "blow across". Alternately: breezes creating a brief resonance with the surface of the Lake? Speculation about something as evocative and unusual as this is fun! You'll never know the answer, and somehow I think knowing the answer would take half the enjoyment out of it. Like knowing all the details of when a geyser is going to erupt - takes all the challenge and mystery out of it! Steve Krause On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:11:03 -0700, Lucille Reilly wrote : > Hi, > > VERY interesting article. Perhaps in the YNP case, the wind might catch > the tree needles (or something else) in such a way as to create sound? > Many years ago, I performed an outdoor concert in a New Jersey state park > bordering the Delaware Bay. There were storms all around the area that > day, producing a strong enough wind to set the F# strings on my hammered > dulcimer into vibration. I have played many outdoor concerts in the 20 > years or so since, some in windy conditions, but haven't encountered this > "voluntary singing" again in all that time. > > Lucille Reilly > > On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:40:33 +1300 "Katherine" > writes: > > Although this article is about sand dunes, its explanation for > > singing dunes > > may somehow be extrapolated to the Yellowstone case. > > > > regards > > Katherine Luketina > > > > Dunes are alive with the sand of music > > 18 December 2004 > > Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition > > Jenny Hogan > From TSBryan at aol.com Fri Feb 11 08:03:47 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:03:47 EST Subject: [Geysers] Flash memory cards Message-ID: A bit off topic but potentially having to do with furthering the idea of the GOSA Archives, can anybody speak to any (if any) differences in the reliability of Secure Digital (SD) versus CompactFlash? Thanks -- you might wish to reply directly to me. Or not. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050211/2175b1d8/attachment.html> From srlb at eskimo.com Sun Feb 13 20:25:49 2005 From: srlb at eskimo.com (srlb at eskimo.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:25:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1217.67.136.147.114.1108355149.squirrel@67.136.147.114> > http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/02/09/build/wyoming/35-snowcoaches.inc Let me summarize these snowcoach stats. Though typically brilliant rule making, the NPS has reduced the number of winter visitors to Yellowstone's interior by nearly two thirds. Bob Berger srlb at eskimo.com From ruthleslie at ispwest.com Mon Feb 14 06:02:42 2005 From: ruthleslie at ispwest.com (Ruth & Leslie Quinn) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:02:42 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette References: <1217.67.136.147.114.1108355149.squirrel@67.136.147.114> Message-ID: <000301c5129d$db0b6650$b8370543@oemcomputer> A message from Leslie Quinn ruthleslie at ispwest.com In a recent post, Bob Berger says: "Let me summarize these snowcoach stats. Though typically brilliant rule making, the NPS has reduced the number of winter visitors to Yellowstone's interior by nearly two thirds." Bob, you say that like it's a bad thing! The park doesn't smell so bad now, there isn't the constant buzz in my ears all day, and the roads are smooth and a pleasure to drive on for the first time in years. The last two winters in the Park (my fourteenth and fifteenth) have been the nicest ever. And yes, I know, I'm being selfish, and what I like don't make me right. Just one of the rabble, Leslie From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 14 08:11:53 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:11:53 EST Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette Message-ID: In a message dated 2/13/2005 23:16:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, srlb at eskimo.com writes: Though typically brilliant rule making, the NPS has reduced the number of winter visitors to Yellowstone's interior by nearly two thirds. As pointed out by the article, some of this may be due to a "new attitude" among visitors, and quite a lot due to the court cases and NPS decisions -- but I also wonder how much might be due to the snowpack (or lack thereof). I haven't gone to the effort to look at specifics for West Yellowstone and vicinity, but I do know 1) the snowpack in western Montana is said to be about 25% (only) of normal, where at least five ski resorts are closed because of the lack of snow; 2) the YNP daily report has cited Fountain Flats snow as "thin"; and 3) there have been times this season, I believe, when snowmobiles were _not_ allowed into the park but coaches on rubber track and even wheeled vans _were_ allowed in. Seems to me that all this can make quite a difference. If there is a "new attitude," the success or lack of success of the "1st Annual" big snow mobile festival to be held in West in March might be especially telling. It will, I think, be held the weekend after the park closes. (If there's snow!) Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050214/4d3b0370/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Mon Feb 14 08:54:33 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:54:33 EST Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson Message-ID: <15c.4a232d7a.2f4231c9@aol.com> I have an illustration on my computer under the title "Grotto based on Gibson 1887", but for the life of me I cannot remember the source of this picture, or the Gibson part. The picture (fairly lo-res) is attached.) Any info appreciated. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050214/83806be8/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Grotto based on Gibson 1887.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 132946 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050214/83806be8/attachment.jpg> From ynp4me at yahoo.com Mon Feb 14 17:52:38 2005 From: ynp4me at yahoo.com (V) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:52:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- our trip link to photos In-Reply-To: <000301c5129d$db0b6650$b8370543@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20050215015239.94256.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> We were in the Park the first week of January and it was wonderful! We took a snowcoach trip from Mammoth to Old Faithful (Moon was our guide) and it was great! She did great stops along the way! We saw a few Eagles and the snowcoach took us along Pocket Basin!! We also snowshoed through the Mammoth Upper Terrace and our Winter "silence" was only disturbed from Orange Mound toward the parking lot... as the snowmobiles roared back from their journeys around 5. (Suggestion- snowshoe after the sleds leave for the day and before they return). Mammoth photos http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3659 Yes- I have snowmobiled in the park (years ago). Yes, the new sleds are quieter... but not quiet enough for me! When one is stopped at the Madison warming hut (a rest-stop for the sleds & the snowcoaches).. believe me- you hear the sleds. Madison warming hut photos http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3875 Yes, I want the snowmobiles out of Yellowstone. Fountain Paint Pot photos http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3792 Bighorn Sheep http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3752 I still need to post my Geyser Hill photos! Vicky, Niko & daughter Madison __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From rbower at postregister.com Mon Feb 14 20:40:22 2005 From: rbower at postregister.com (Robert Bower) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:40:22 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Flash memory cards References: Message-ID: <001701c51318$9f87ff00$acca1341@Bower1> Scott, While it is likely not exactly applicable---------------------- At the newspaper where I work we use Lexar compact flash cards exclusively in our nikon digital cameras. We had heard that they were very good and have proved to be for us. In the last three years with daily usage by multiple photographers we have only had a handful of glitches, and no complete failures. Their Image Rescue utility has always allowed us to regain our image files. Even then it is highly likely that it was either the camera or the computer we were downloading to that caused the problem. Their cards with the professional designation even have a lifetime warranty ------even with a card that was almost two years old and made us use the rescue utility three times in three months--- we called them up and they sent a new card, and asked us to send them the old one for their evaluation. I believe failures are extremely rare. On the other hand I have no real knowledge of the other system.. Robert Bower -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050214/8d4cf256/attachment.html> From Joeerg at aol.com Mon Feb 14 23:43:09 2005 From: Joeerg at aol.com (Joeerg at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 02:43:09 EST Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette Message-ID: <15c.4a312dbf.2f43020d@aol.com> In response to Leslie Quinn's message "from one of the rabble," I'd like to chime in with the observation that while I have never been so fortunate as to have spent time in YNP in the winter, I have had the unfortunate experience of visiting state parks in my home state that are infested with ATV's, making such activities as picnicking, wildlife watching, or just hanging out pretty unpleasant. My guess is that there are similarities. It makes me sick to think of the noise, exhaust fumes, and general havoc snowmobiles must create at YNP. I have little sympathy for those whose need for adventure, or whatever it is, requires them to drive a private vehicle in a public park to the detriment of the environment as well as other park visitors. The snowcoaches provide park access; if some percentage of park visitors chooses not to use them, that does not make the policy wrong. Like most unpopular policies (anti-smoking, for example) this one will become the norm after some time has passed and it becomes clear that it won't be reversed. For the record, I believe there should be a regularly scheduled bus shuttle service operating in the park during the summer season. Just one of the "armchair" rabble. Debby Stahl In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:25:44 PM Central Standard Time, ruthleslie at ispwest.com writes: > A message from Leslie Quinn ruthleslie at ispwest.com > > In a recent post, Bob Berger says: "Let me summarize these snowcoach stats. > Though typically brilliant rule > making, the NPS has reduced the number of winter visitors to Yellowstone's > interior by nearly two thirds." > > Bob, you say that like it's a bad thing! The park doesn't smell so bad now, > there isn't the constant buzz in my ears all day, and the roads are smooth > and a pleasure to drive on for the first time in years. The last two winters > > in the Park (my fourteenth and fifteenth) have been the nicest ever. And > yes, I know, I'm being selfish, and what I like don't make me right. > > Just one of the rabble, > Leslie > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050215/75fb1ec6/attachment.html> From siegmund at mosquitonet.com Tue Feb 15 15:28:05 2005 From: siegmund at mosquitonet.com (Gordon Bower) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:28:05 -0900 (AKST) Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette In-Reply-To: <000301c5129d$db0b6650$b8370543@oemcomputer> Message-ID: I had two reactions to that "January use" graph in the Billings Gazette. One, that the chart wasn't showing us what we needed to know to make an 'interesting' comparison -- yes, the new rules have cut traffic. How does this compare to what the traffic was before the new regulations were in place? Two, that the numbers are all very small. This amazing new growth in snowcoach traffic is from 120 to 140 passengers per day. My first winter trip to Old Faithful was in January of 1985 or 1986. There was a huge line of snowcoaches blocking traffic outside the Stagecoach Inn in West - seven of them, if memory serves, all stuffed to the gills. On other trips to Mammoth, we would see and hear as many as 5 coaches a day going south. A couple others came up from Flagg Ranch. That all seemed to dry up and blow away sometime around 1990. The times I was at Old Faithful in the winter in the 1990s, there were one or two TW Services coaches each from West and from Mammoth. A small handful of private guide service coaches too, but nowhere close to ten a day of them. The private guide business was really starting to pick up the last time I was there (1998, Cascade Geyser weekend).... but after all these years of growth, *we are just barely beginning to approach the typical snowcoach usage of 20 years ago*. I don't know how many snowmobiles there were back then exactly... they outnumbered the snowcoachers considerably. That's where an expanded version of that Gazette graphic would be nice. If I took a shot in the dark I'd guess it was 15,000 back then. There were certainly lines to pay at the West Entrance, and jampacked parking lots at Old Faithful then. GRB From CrosCa at wwc.edu Tue Feb 15 17:34:42 2005 From: CrosCa at wwc.edu (Carlton Cross) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:34:42 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson Message-ID: Moderator Comment: Here's something that didn't get normal processing which I haven't been able to figure out, so I'm posting it. I don't think either one got posted yet. Carlton Cross Alternate Moderator carlton.cross at wwc.edu ________________________________________ Scott, The illustration comes from F. K. Warren's CALIFORNIA ILLUSTRATED (1892) but is based on an earlier image that appeared in John Gibson's GREAT WATERFALLS, CATARACTS, AND GEYSERS (1887). This image appears in various forms in other illustrated Yellowstone books during the late 1880s and 1980s. Both the Gibson and Warren images appear and are discussed on page 73 in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (2003) and figures 13 and 15 (between pages 54 and 55) in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (1996). Hope this info helps! Judy Meyer ________________________________ From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of TSBryan at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:55 AM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson I have an illustration on my computer under the title "Grotto based on Gibson 1887", but for the life of me I cannot remember the source of this picture, or the Gibson part. The picture (fairly lo-res) is attached.) Any info appreciated. Scott Bryan From gjsjr at microconnect.net Tue Feb 15 19:00:55 2005 From: gjsjr at microconnect.net (Grover Schrayer) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:00:55 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] Re: Snowmobiles in Yellowstone Message-ID: <4212B767.9070302@microconnect.net> I sincerely hope that everyone who treasures the freedom to go out to watch a White Dome eruption by the light of an aurora at two a.m. will realize that the same logic that underlies the move to ban snowmobiles can also be used to ban private automobiles if the park service deems it necessary. It's my personal opinion that many attempts to introduce such things as monorails into the park have more to do with controlling people than any sincere wish to protect the resources. Careful what you wish for. Grover Schrayer From TSBryan at aol.com Tue Feb 15 20:14:21 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:14:21 EST Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson Message-ID: <12e.57b7547a.2f44229d@aol.com> In a message dated 2/15/2005 17:36:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, CrosCa at wwc.edu writes: The illustration comes from F. K. Warren's CALIFORNIA ILLUSTRATED (1892) but is based on an earlier image that appeared in John Gibson's GREAT WATERFALLS, CATARACTS, AND GEYSERS (1887). This image appears in various forms in other illustrated Yellowstone books during the late 1880s and 1980s. Both the Gibson and Warren images appear and are discussed on page 73 in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (2003) and figures 13 and 15 (between pages 54 and 55) in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (1996). This info, from Judy Meyer is helpful, indeed. After considerable pondering, I concluded that I obtained the photo by scanning from a book in the West Yellowstone library. But here is the interesting point. Mary BEth Schwarz sent a link to an Ebay ad (a guy in England) who is selling an engraving that he says was done by a _Frenchman_ named E. Riou in 1874. I say, 1874. I again attach a copy (really samll and low-res) -- the similarity to the "Gibson is remarkable but close examination shows the latter to be slightly different and, so, a copy. So I encounter anouther curiosity. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050215/0d546eee/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: E Riou The Cave 1874.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44368 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050215/0d546eee/attachment.jpg> From gosastore at QNET.COM Tue Feb 15 20:57:14 2005 From: gosastore at QNET.COM (Udo Freund) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:57:14 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- our trip link to photos In-Reply-To: <20050215015239.94256.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050215015239.94256.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4212D2AA.2030800@qnet.com> The mention of driving snowcoaches by Pocket Basin is intriguing. Would lack of snow on the Fountain Flats road encourage NPS to open up the old road (from Ojo Caliente to the Iron Bridge) on the other side of the Firehole? Neither road goes "along Pocket Basin", however. Can someone clarify, please? Udo V wrote: >We took a snowcoach trip from Mammoth to Old >Faithful (Moon was our guide) and it was great! >She did great stops along the way! We saw a >few Eagles and the snowcoach took us along >Pocket Basin!! > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050215/04b58cbd/attachment.html> From kmassey7 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 16 00:00:44 2005 From: kmassey7 at hotmail.com (Kristen Massey) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:00:44 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- our trip link to photos In-Reply-To: <20050215015239.94256.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Vicky... I **wish** I could be in the park so I could have awesome winter pictures like yours! The pics you linked us to are GREAT! Well, at least I may be there this summer... Speaking of summer...any gazers that are there from May 21 through about July 31: I would really like to meet you (again?) and learn from you...You guys are the ultimate source of all Yellowstone knowledge (in my opinion). Thanks, Kristen Massey 678-908-6987 (OFI Dining Room 2003; unassigned busser for summer 2005) P.S. -> Hey Goldberg...did you get the X-mas card I sent you? >From: V >Reply-To: geyser observation reports >To: geyser observation reports >Subject: Re: [Geysers] Snowcoach- our trip link to photos >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:52:38 -0800 (PST) > >We were in the Park the first week of January >and it was wonderful! > >We took a snowcoach trip from Mammoth to Old >Faithful (Moon was our guide) and it was great! >She did great stops along the way! We saw a >few Eagles and the snowcoach took us along >Pocket Basin!! > >We also snowshoed through the Mammoth Upper >Terrace and our Winter "silence" was only disturbed >from Orange Mound toward the parking lot... as >the snowmobiles roared back from their journeys >around 5. (Suggestion- snowshoe after the sleds >leave for the day and before they return). >Mammoth photos >http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3659 > >Yes- I have snowmobiled in the park (years ago). > >Yes, the new sleds are quieter... but not quiet >enough for me! When one is stopped at the >Madison warming hut (a rest-stop for the sleds >& the snowcoaches).. believe me- you hear the >sleds. >Madison warming hut photos >http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3875 > >Yes, I want the snowmobiles out of Yellowstone. > >Fountain Paint Pot photos >http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3792 > >Bighorn Sheep >http://www.yellowstone.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3752 > > >I still need to post my Geyser Hill photos! > >Vicky, Niko & daughter Madison > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. >http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo >_______________________________________________ >Geysers mailing list >Geysers at wwc.edu >https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From udo.freund at lmco.com Wed Feb 16 06:41:29 2005 From: udo.freund at lmco.com (Freund, Udo) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:41:29 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Polluters Message-ID: I wonder what all of you think regarding other noisy, polluting vehicles that enter the Park during any season. Motorcycles, cars, buses, trucks, motorhomes, snowmobiles, boats, etc. can all be sources for complaints. For example, when was the last time you couldn't hear an eruption of (insert your favorite geyser here) because of a group of loud motorcycles? I usually avoid visiting in August because of them. And if no one complains, nothing will get done about it. IMHO, the time is long overdue for NPS to establish non-discriminatory regulations and enforce them. Decibel meters and smog/particulate detection equipment should be used at entrance stations to prohibit entry to ALL polluting machinery, year 'round. And not just in Yellowstone either. Isn't the goal of _our_ National Parks to keep their environments as pristine as possible to preserve them? Thanks, Udo Freund _____ From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of Joeerg at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:43 PM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: Re: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette It makes me sick to think of the noise, exhaust fumes, and general havoc snowmobiles must create at YNP. I have little sympathy for those whose need for adventure, or whatever it is, requires them to drive a private vehicle in a public park to the detriment of the environment as well as other park visitors. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050216/0ccac8a4/attachment.html> From srlb at eskimo.com Wed Feb 16 09:27:25 2005 From: srlb at eskimo.com (srlb at eskimo.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:27:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette In-Reply-To: <15c.4a312dbf.2f43020d@aol.com> References: <15c.4a312dbf.2f43020d@aol.com> Message-ID: <1270.67.136.147.111.1108574845.squirrel@67.136.147.111> Debby Stahl wrote: > It makes me sick to think of the noise, exhaust > fumes, and general havoc snowmobiles must create > at YNP. General havoc? Please describe. > I have little sympathy for those whose need for > adventure, or whatever it is, requires them to > drive a private vehicle in a public park to the > detriment of the environment as well as other > park visitors. Does this include winter visitors who enter through the north gate in their cars, trucks, and SUVs? When you visit the park in the summer, do you do so by tour bus or in your private vehicle? Why do the typical YNP summer visitor's reasons for using a car not equally apply to snowmobiles in the winter? > The snowcoaches provide park access; The tour buses provide park access in the summer. > if some percentage of park visitors chooses not > to use them, that does not make the policy wrong. The fraction of winter visitors to the park's interior who chose not to use snowcoaches prior to the changing of the rules was 90%. This includes 70% of those visitors who had never snowmobiled before. > Like most unpopular policies (anti-smoking, > for example) Or prohibition? :>) > this one will become the norm after > some time has passed and it becomes > clear that it won't be reversed. I suggest you find and read some of the media pieces on Interior Secretary Norton's recent visit to the park. She is quoted as favoring snowmobile access without commercial guides. The commercial guides rule, by the way, is the only one of the new rules to which I object. I'm very much in favor of the BAT (best available technology) rule for the snowmobiles allowed to enter; and I don't think the daily limits on the number snowmobiles allowed in represents a serious restriction to access on the vast majority of days. The problem with the guides rule is that it's illogically applied. For example, cross-country skiers and showshoers are not required to be guided, yet the NPS's own research indicates they may be more stressful to the park's wildlife than snowmobilers. From the YNP/GTNP Winter Use FEIS: On page 240: >> EFFECTS OF NONMOTORIZED [SKIERS, ETC] >> USE OF GROOMED AND DESIGNATED UNGROOMED >> ROUTES. > >> The primary effects of nonmotorized use >> on ungulates are displacement from preferred >> habitats, especially geothermal areas that >> are important for winter survival in YNP, >> and increased energy expenditures, including >> physiological stress, which may reduce >> individuals' chances of survival. These >> effects are believed to be of a greater >> magnitude than those caused by motorized >> vehicles using established, predictable >> routes (Cole 1978; Schultz and Bailey 1978; >> Walter 1978; Aune 1981; Cassier 1986). And on page 248: >> In contrast to motorized activities, >> nonmotorized recreation (e.g., cross-country >> skiing), especially when it occurs outside >> of predictable use areas or in riparian areas, >> may be highly disruptive to bald eagles >> (Harmata and Oakleaf 1992; Grubb and King 1991; >> Stalmaster and Newman 1978; McGarigal et al. >> 1991; Stangl 1994). Also, wheeled vehicles (cars, etc.) that enter the park in the winter do not require guides, yet the FEIS tells us: On page 239: >> During the winters from 1989-98, wheeled- >> vehicles accounted for 99% of all road- >> killed large mammals (predominantly ungulates) >> in YNP. Of the 1,090 animals killed, elk (427), >> mule deer (335) and bison (98) were the species >> most often involved in fatal collisions >> (Gunther et al. 1998). And again on page 239: >> Overall, considering all species, the [winter] >> average ratio of wheeled-vehicle road-kill >> mortality to snowmobile road-kill mortality was >> 17 to 1. Now, to make this ramble of mine relevant to this geyser oriented group, let us suppose you're paying the park a winter visit. You're staying at the Snow Lodge, it's about noon, and there doesn't seem to be much prospect of any especially interesting geyser activity in the UGB for the next few hours. So, you decide to spend a little time in the Lower Geyser Basin (or West Thumb, or wherever) seeing what's going on there. Question: Under the current rules, how do you get there and back? > For the record, I believe there should be a > regularly scheduled bus shuttle service > operating in the park during the summer season. I totally agree. Zion National Park has an excellent, visitor friendly mass transit system operating there that replaces most use of private vehicles. The problem is it covers only 10 miles of the park's roads, and cost $28 million just to implement. Yellowstone has about 200 miles of frequently used road. The cost of such a system in YNP would be prohibitive; while a system that's less visitor friendly by very much isn't going to serve the visiting public's needs. > Just one of the "armchair" rabble. > > Debby Stahl Bob Berger srlb at eskimo.com From rlpowell at indiana.edu Wed Feb 16 10:29:32 2005 From: rlpowell at indiana.edu (Richard/Marion Powell) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:29:32 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson References: Message-ID: <000a01c51455$78cd18d0$887e389c@marion0agqlnep> Judy Meyer: Would you please let me know what is Spirit of Yellowstone (magazine, book?) and where it can be purchased? Thanks, Dick Powell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlton Cross" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:34 PM Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson > Moderator Comment: Here's something that didn't get normal processing > which I haven't been able to figure out, so I'm posting it. I don't > think either one got posted yet. > > Carlton Cross > Alternate Moderator > carlton.cross at wwc.edu > ________________________________________ > > Scott, > The illustration comes from F. K. Warren's CALIFORNIA ILLUSTRATED > (1892) > but is based on an earlier image that appeared in John Gibson's GREAT > WATERFALLS, CATARACTS, AND GEYSERS (1887). This image appears in > various forms in other illustrated Yellowstone books during the late > 1880s and 1980s. Both the Gibson and Warren images appear and are > discussed on page 73 in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (2003) and figures 13 > and > 15 (between pages 54 and 55) in SPIRIT OF YELLOWSTONE (1996). > > Hope this info helps! > > Judy Meyer > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On > Behalf > Of TSBryan at aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:55 AM > To: geysers at wwc.edu > Subject: [Geysers] Grotto by Gibson > > > I have an illustration on my computer under the title "Grotto based on > Gibson 1887", but for the life of me I cannot remember the source of > this picture, or the Gibson part. The picture (fairly lo-res) is > attached.) Any info appreciated. > > Scott Bryan > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > > From rlpowell at indiana.edu Wed Feb 16 14:47:59 2005 From: rlpowell at indiana.edu (Richard/Marion Powell) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:47:59 -0500 Subject: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer References: Message-ID: <000c01c51479$93b750b0$9b7e389c@marion0agqlnep> MA Bellingham: The Spring 2004 issue (V12, #2, p.23-40 of Yellowstone Science has an article about Robert Reamer. Also, there is a preceding article about the Old Faithful Inn (p. 4-22). Dick Powell ----- Original Message ----- From: "MA Bellingham" To: "'geyser observation reports'" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:36 PM Subject: RE: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer > > Leslie and Ruth are friend to many on this list! > > Just one of the rabble.... > MA > > > MA Bellingham > > -----Original Message----- > From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf > Of > Debbie Sjodin > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:43 AM > To: geysers at wwc.edu > Subject: [Geysers] Book on Robert Reamer > > A self-published book on the work of Robert C. Reamer, architect of the > Old Faithful Inn, and apparantly many other Yellowstone buildings has > just come to my attention and I thought I'd pass it along. Sad to say I > don't know the woman who works in the Inn and giver tours on its history > but it looks pretty interesting > > > Quinn, Ruth. > Weaver of dreams : the life and architecture of Robert C. Reamer. > published Gardiner, Mt by Ruth and Leslie Quinn, 2004. > 199 p. many illustrations $39.95 > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > > > From crose61514 at wyoming.com Wed Feb 16 20:54:59 2005 From: crose61514 at wyoming.com (Cindy Rose) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:54:59 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Polluters References: Message-ID: <001601c514ac$d5dba800$3edde3cc@VAIO> Udo and all-- If I were Queen of the World, there would be a mandatory hybrid vehicle law until a completely non-hydrocarbon dependent vehicle were developed, solar panels and wind turbines on every roof, mandatory recycling of damn near everything and enforced noise/light pollution laws everywhere. Noisy-Davidson would be required to make motorcycles that don't exceed a whisper, motorhomes would have to be parked at park entrances and the drivers forced to take solar shuttles so that animal-jam on a meadow muffin would become a dim memory. Of course we wouldn't ever have to go to war again, at least unless somebody really does threaten our beloved way of life, and children would be forced to eat organic broccoli. Until then, keep those cards and letters going to your NPS, and maybe they'll really do something logical someday. Stepping down from her soapbox, Cindy Rose From Joeerg at aol.com Wed Feb 16 21:50:00 2005 From: Joeerg at aol.com (Joeerg at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:50:00 EST Subject: [Geysers] Snow coach Stats: Billings Gazette Message-ID: <11.3f32a4ac.2f458a88@aol.com> Snip: "General havoc? Please describe." NOISE primarily. It tends by its nature to become general. Exhaust a close second. Bikers also tend to scare away wildlife and feel disruptive. Visiting local state parks is often intolerable due to lack of control of noise. Snip: "When you visit the park in the summer, do you do so by tour bus or in your private vehicle" I have quite frankly never considered a "tour bus." Moreover, I admit that I am not sure what a YNP tour bus would be like. Perhaps I am guilty of stereotyping by assuming that a "tour bus" would be one intended for those visitors who wish to have a structured, regimented, guided, and low energy visit to the park designed to cover certain sites within a time period. Since we do not prefer structure, regimentation, or guiding, and are interested in a high energy visit, and we like to remain at many locations for longer periods to hike, educate ourselves, picnic, watch wildlife, etc., a "tour bus" would seem impractical. On the other hand, should the park provide a reliable, predictable scheduled shuttle bus service running throughout the day and making stops at major park locations (with perhaps some trailhead options, as well) the car would come in, but once it got there, it would stay at the starting point. We'd be happy to pay for it, too. As noted in my original post, I am one of the rabble, and from the armchair as well. I'm not interested in provoking an argument. Having said that, my reaction to the snowmobile issue at YNP isn't based upon firsthand experience, but on a general distaste for the seemingly uncontrolled proliferation of private vehicles of all kinds and the increasing difficulty of finding places not overrun with ATV's, boats, bikers, snowmobiles, jetskis, or whatever. There's an unending list. Certainly I support the idea of promoting attractive public transportation alternatives with the goal of reducing the numbers of private vehicles of all kinds. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050217/6c4bd307/attachment.html> From ynp4me at yahoo.com Wed Feb 16 21:53:07 2005 From: ynp4me at yahoo.com (V) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:53:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- pocket basin In-Reply-To: <4212D2AA.2030800@qnet.com> Message-ID: <20050217055307.60308.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry- I should have said out near Pocket Basin (that's all I thought of while heading toward the old Iron Bridge.) In many ways, I was shocked as we were heading that direction but did I want to be on the main section of the road with the snowmobiles? No! It was only open for snowcoaches (I saw a sign)!! Vicky --- Udo Freund wrote: > The mention of driving snowcoaches by Pocket Basin is intriguing. > Would > lack of snow on the Fountain Flats road encourage NPS to open up the > old > road (from Ojo Caliente to the Iron Bridge) on the other side of the > Firehole? Neither road goes "along Pocket Basin", however. Can > someone > clarify, please? > > Udo > > V wrote: > > >We took a snowcoach trip from Mammoth to Old > >Faithful (Moon was our guide) and it was great! > >She did great stops along the way! We saw a > >few Eagles and the snowcoach took us along > >Pocket Basin!! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From ynp4me at yahoo.com Wed Feb 16 21:58:35 2005 From: ynp4me at yahoo.com (V) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:58:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Yellowstone Science link In-Reply-To: <000c01c51479$93b750b0$9b7e389c@marion0agqlnep> Message-ID: <20050217055835.92872.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> Here is the link for the Yellowstone Science issues online! Vicky Yellowstone Science http://www.nps.gov/yell/publications/yellsciweb/issues.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From srlb at eskimo.com Thu Feb 17 08:13:08 2005 From: srlb at eskimo.com (srlb at eskimo.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:13:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Re: Snowmobiles in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <4212B767.9070302@microconnect.net> References: <4212B767.9070302@microconnect.net> Message-ID: <1219.67.136.147.113.1108656788.squirrel@67.136.147.113> Grover Schrayer wrote: > I sincerely hope that everyone who > treasures the freedom to go out to > watch a White Dome eruption by the > light of an aurora at two a.m. will > realize that the same logic that > underlies the move to ban snowmobiles > can also be used to ban private > automobiles if the park service deems > it necessary. It's my personal opinion > that many attempts to introduce such > things as monorails into the park have > more to do with controlling people than > any sincere wish to protect the resources. > Careful what you wish for. I agree. Here's part of a 2002 article published in the New York Times quoting a park official that reflects your concerns. The URL is no longer valid, but I've included it to meet copyright requirements. If anyone wants a copy of the entire article, email me and I'll send it to you. >> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Yellowstone-By-Bus.html >> >> Yellowstone to Try Public Transit >> >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >> >> Filed at 2:57 a.m. ET [09/26/2002] >> BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) -- Yellowstone National >> Park is preparing to test the public's appetite >> for mass transit, hoping visitors will consider >> giving up their minivans and road-clogging >> recreation vehicles for commuter buses. >> >> ``This park is just being loved to death,'' >> said Jim Evanoff, a management assistant at >> Yellowstone. ``We're starting to send the signal >> that private cars are not necessarily going to >> be the future at Yellowstone.'' >> >> The mass transit idea, still in its early >> stages, is part of a program intended to help >> cut down on air and noise pollution and improve >> the environment within the country's first >> national park. >> >> Yellowstone recently purchased a small fleet >> of the famous old yellow tour buses that were >> phased out of service in the park in the 1950s. >> Once a chief source of visitor transportation, >> the buses will be refurbished and are expected >> to be returned to service in a few years, >> Evanoff said. >> >> The buses likely would be used at first for >> shuttle service between some of the park's more >> popular sites, which are often clogged with >> vehicles and slowed by traffic jams. >> >> Evanoff and others, however, hope the buses >> will eventually be just one part of a greater >> transportation system that would dramatically >> cut the number of private vehicles touring the >> park. >> >> ``I envision mass transportation, such as bus >> companies bringing people to entrance gates and >> people hopping onto some sort of transportation >> system ... where you have control of the visitor >> and minimal disturbance of wildlife,'' Evanoff said. >> I'm sure we all understand that when we visit Yellowstone, the NPS needs to control us more than they do now. Right? > Grover Schrayer Bob Berger srlb at eskimo.com From TSBryan at aol.com Thu Feb 17 09:08:27 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:08:27 EST Subject: [Geysers] Early engravings of Grotto Message-ID: This is mostly directed to the Judy Meyer who responded about my "based on Gibson, 1887" illustration. I presume she is the same as Judith L. Meyer, author of _Spirit of Yellowstone_? (Your e-mail address did not appear in the mail.) If so, 1. Do I correctly presume that when in your e-mail you said that the image had appeared "in various forms... in the late 1880s and 1980s" you really meant to say "1880s and 1890s"? 2. An online catalog search shows me that a copy of your 1996 edition is in the West Yellowstone Public Library, so that's undoubtedly where I found the image. 3. Were you aware of the "The Cave" by Riou, 1874? Might Judy or anybody know if this is the "original" and if it was (or not) based on a known photo (Jackson?, or ?). Thanks! Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050217/db43408d/attachment.html> From riozafiro at earthlink.net Thu Feb 17 16:26:20 2005 From: riozafiro at earthlink.net (Pat Snyder) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:26:20 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- our trip link to photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1dbd4dfeaaa4075081928f48bfbbc7d5@earthlink.net> I'll be there Memorial Day week. Please introduce yourself! (I always have a camera in hand, and a dark green backpack.) Pat S. On Feb 16, 2005, at 12:00 AM, Kristen Massey wrote: > Vicky... > I **wish** I could be in the park so I could have awesome winter > pictures like yours! The pics you linked us to are GREAT! Well, at > least I may be there this summer... > Speaking of summer...any gazers that are there from May 21 through > about July 31: I would really like to meet you (again?) and learn from > you...You guys are the ultimate source of all Yellowstone knowledge > (in my opinion). > > Thanks, > Kristen Massey > 678-908-6987 > (OFI Dining Room 2003; unassigned busser for summer 2005) > > P.S. -> Hey Goldberg...did you get the X-mas card I sent you? > From TSBryan at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:37:19 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:37:19 EST Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- pocket basin Message-ID: In a message dated 2/17/2005 17:53:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, ynp4me at yahoo.com writes: In many ways, I was shocked as we were heading that direction but did I want to be on the main section of the road with the snowmobiles? No! It was only open for snowcoaches (I saw a sign)!! Having not been to YNP in the winter since (ah, hem) 1974, I could be wrong -- but isn't it true that the old Fountain Flats Drive has been the snowcoach route for several years? While considering such things, and that supposed downturn in snow mobile use, I just found that Montana now has a by-fee permit system for out of state snowmobiles. I think probably the great majority of such use is by rental in town, but could the new (this year, I guess) fee be part of the reduced use? Just a thought. Scott Bryan Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050217/1610f608/attachment.html> From ynp4me at yahoo.com Thu Feb 17 21:17:18 2005 From: ynp4me at yahoo.com (V) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:17:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] grotto- Spirit of Yellowstone book In-Reply-To: <000a01c51455$78cd18d0$887e389c@marion0agqlnep> Message-ID: <20050218051718.1674.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a link for it! Vicky Spirit Of Yellowstone- Book at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/157098395X/qid=1108703713/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8227893-0924929?v=glance&s=books --- Richard/Marion Powell wrote: > Judy Meyer: > Would you please let me know what is Spirit of Yellowstone > (magazine, book?) and where it can be purchased? > Thanks, Dick Powell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jlm545F at smsu.edu Fri Feb 18 05:34:47 2005 From: jlm545F at smsu.edu (Meyer, Judith L) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:34:47 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] Early engravings of Grotto Message-ID: <37BE273DB6D3F1418D96D6D5DCEF46BF025A59AF@malachite.SPRINGFIELD.SMSU.EDU> Scott, In answer to your questions: Yes, you presume correctly regarding the dates. I did transpose the 8 and 9. It should have read 1880s and 1890s. And no, I did NOT know about the 1874 "The Cave" by Riou! Other than the eBay auction, have you seen the text elsewhere? I assumed Gibson "lifted" the image from someone else, since he plays fairly loose and free with other parts of his book, but I had no idea where. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Judy Meyer (Judith L. Meyer; Associate Professor, Geography. Southwest Missouri State University. jlm545f at smsu.edu) ________________________________ From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of TSBryan at aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:08 AM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] Early engravings of Grotto This is mostly directed to the Judy Meyer who responded about my "based on Gibson, 1887" illustration. I presume she is the same as Judith L. Meyer, author of _Spirit of Yellowstone_? (Your e-mail address did not appear in the mail.) If so, 1. Do I correctly presume that when in your e-mail you said that the image had appeared "in various forms... in the late 1880s and 1980s" you really meant to say "1880s and 1890s"? 2. An online catalog search shows me that a copy of your 1996 edition is in the West Yellowstone Public Library, so that's undoubtedly where I found the image. 3. Were you aware of the "The Cave" by Riou, 1874? Might Judy or anybody know if this is the "original" and if it was (or not) based on a known photo (Jackson?, or ?). Thanks! Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050218/2bad02c2/attachment.html> From srlb at eskimo.com Fri Feb 18 14:56:03 2005 From: srlb at eskimo.com (srlb at eskimo.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:56:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] Polluters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1664.67.136.147.202.1108767363.squirrel@67.136.147.202> Udo Freund wrote: > I wonder what all of you think regarding other noisy, polluting vehicles > that enter the Park during any season. Motorcycles, cars, buses, > trucks, motorhomes, snowmobiles, boats, etc. can all be sources for > complaints. > IMHO, the time is long overdue for NPS to establish non-discriminatory > regulations and enforce them. Decibel meters and smog/particulate > detection equipment should be used at entrance stations to prohibit > entry to ALL polluting machinery, year 'round. And not just in > Yellowstone either. I agree. The current YNP winter use rules limit snowmobiles operating at full throttle to 73 dBA maximum. As a part of my July 2001 visit to the park, I brought a lab quality, field use decibel meter (deciometer SP??) with which I measured the sound energy levels of vehicles passing along the road in front of the lower Ham's store. By far the loudest were a couple of NPS flatbed and dump trucks that gave 105+ dBA readings. Several motor cycles registered in the 85dBA range with a few in the 95dBA range (more than 100 times greater sound energy than the new snowmobile limit). Quite a few cars (some obviously with after market performance exhaust systems) registered above 75 dBA. Interestingly, except for two old clunkers, no motor homes produced readings over 75 dBA. Now, what are we going to do about the crowds waiting for an afternoon Old Faithful eruption? I propose banning kids' cork shooting pop guns and genuine, made in China, 7th cavalry bugles. Parents and their crying babies should be expelled from the park, as should back-country hikers wearing their jingle bells. :>) Bob Berger srlb at eskimo.com From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Fri Feb 18 13:20:39 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Snowcoach- pocket basin In-Reply-To: <20050217055307.60308.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c515ff$b420a810$aedafe04@MikeKeller> All, In the winter season the old Fountain Flats Freight Road is used for snowcoaches only going one way from Madison to Old Faithful. It has been used this way in winter for at least 17 years, probably more. Most winters the wind is so steady in Fountain Flats that most of the snow blows off the road. By having coaches use the freight road, it keeps what little snow there is on the road longer. MK -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of V Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:53 PM To: geyser observation reports Subject: Re: [Geysers] Snowcoach- pocket basin Sorry- I should have said out near Pocket Basin (that's all I thought of while heading toward the old Iron Bridge.) In many ways, I was shocked as we were heading that direction but did I want to be on the main section of the road with the snowmobiles? No! It was only open for snowcoaches (I saw a sign)!! Vicky --- Udo Freund wrote: > The mention of driving snowcoaches by Pocket Basin is intriguing. > Would > lack of snow on the Fountain Flats road encourage NPS to open up the > old > road (from Ojo Caliente to the Iron Bridge) on the other side of the > Firehole? Neither road goes "along Pocket Basin", however. Can > someone > clarify, please? > > Udo > > V wrote: > > >We took a snowcoach trip from Mammoth to Old > >Faithful (Moon was our guide) and it was great! > >She did great stops along the way! We saw a > >few Eagles and the snowcoach took us along > >Pocket Basin!! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:30 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:29:30 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser report 2/19/05 Message-ID: <001201c51600$f104ec90$aedafe04@MikeKeller> Some exciting stuff: Silex Spring erupted today. This is the first reported eruption since last February. It was seen at 1100 by a guide. I arrived at Silex at 1210 and stayed for about 90 minutes. When I got there it was about 8 feet below overflow, and when I left it was only 18" below overflow. Every minute or so there would be periods of superheated boiling to a couple of feet. Celestine Pool was murky from debris washed into it, and frequently surging up to 3 feet. Old Cone Spring was in eruption at 1258, and Fountain Geyser started at 1316. Another snowcoach guide told me that on Tuesday (2/15) Fountain was in wild phase, but I have not been able to confirm this. In the UGB: Fan and Mortar erupted overnight 2/18-2/19. The previous eruption was overnight 2/14-2/15. Grand erupted at 0437 (electronic) and at 1146 (N/T1Q). Based upon lack of snow, Penta erupted sometime between 2/11 and 2/18. Sawmill was active several times today. Grotto was 0917ie, and appears to be in Marathon. Giant had a strong hot period around 0740, and a smaller one around 1020. Bijou was very weak at 1130. MK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050218/3a8d2537/attachment.html> From TSBryan at aol.com Sun Feb 20 19:36:15 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:36:15 EST Subject: [Geysers] geyseres en Peru Message-ID: <65.3f6d6bd4.2f4ab12f@aol.com> Ain't the WWW wonderful? I have just discovered a document published not before 2002 (it is undated but includes a 2002 publication in the references) that discusses 13 areas of geological importance that are recommended by the authors for inclusion in a Peruvian national park system. (Is this a new or an expanded system? I don't know.) The authors Bilberto Zavala and Lionel Fidel are members of the Peruvian Institute of Geology, Mining and Metallurgy, and the publication was put out as part of the XI Congreso Peruano de Geologia, Siciedad Geologica del Peru. So this would seem to not be some "fly-by-night" deal. Recommended areas by numerical order include: 2. Monumento Natural de Candarave-Calientes: among the points of special interest are "geysers and areas of boiling springs." 3. Monumento Natural de Puente Puente Bello: "hot springs and geysers..." Geysers is plural. Note that this place was reported to me years ago but I actually always thought is a bit "iffy." Low-res gray photo is attached. 7. Monumento Natural Valle del Colca: volcanic features near Arequipa that inlcude " geyser [singular this time], fumaroles and thermal baths..." I'm not jumping up and down with great joy quite yet, as this article (in Spanish) makes it pretty clear that the process is just beginning, showing a long series of steps necessary for any of the recommended areas to be approved. But, gee, somebody else cares!? Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050220/d7a725c8/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Puente Bello Peru gray.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 56291 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050220/d7a725c8/attachment.jpg> From KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com Sat Feb 19 22:47:00 2005 From: KSCOPE_YNP at peoplepc.com (Mike Keller) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:47:00 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] Geyser Report 2/20/05 Message-ID: <000001c51717$fff61090$f5e2fe04@MikeKeller> Not much new today: Plume was erupting at 50-80 minute intervals Sawmill was in eruption all morning and had drained the entire Sawmill Group. Grand erupted at 0928 (?/?2C). Rift started about 30 minutes after Grand finished. Beauty Pool is still in overflow. There was a 7m21s hot period at 1028. Mastiff surged a couple of times to about 2 feet. This hot period took place about 90 minutes after Grotto stopped. Grotto was 0835ie, and ended at 0900. It was probably the first Grotto following yesterday's marathon. Riverside erupted at 0904, giving it an average of roughly 6h 05m overnight. I did not hear anything about Silex erupting today. MK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050219/1ff275aa/attachment.html> From thedulcimerlady at juno.com Mon Feb 21 10:22:10 2005 From: thedulcimerlady at juno.com (Lucille Reilly) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:22:10 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] M-I-C.... Message-ID: <20050221.112237.-316063.4.TheDulcimerLady@juno.com> Hi folks, 9News in Denver reported some disturbing news on the 5pm news last night: Walt Disney (Enterprises or whatever they are called) is planning on setting up tours in Wyoming and Hawaii. The Wyoming tours will include Yellowstone Park. The announcement ended with, "Mickey Mouse may appear, under controlled circumstances--or not at all." Doesn't Yellowstone have enough trouble being treated like a petting zoo to run the risk of being seen as a fantasy land, too? If someone on this list has the wherewithal to forward this message to the Park Superintendent, please do. I am sure I am not alone on this list with my concern about this possibility. There might be more info at www.9news.com, but I don't get on the Internet terribly often, having limited service. Lucille Reilly From ashley.cody at wave.co.nz Mon Feb 21 12:58:17 2005 From: ashley.cody at wave.co.nz (Ashley Cody) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:58:17 +1300 Subject: [Geysers] Fw: Rotorua Blowout Message-ID: <005501c51859$1550cce0$e99d76cb@dd> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ashley Cody To: geysers at wwc.edu Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:29 AM Subject: Rotorua Blowout A brief note from Rotorua NZ. On Tuesday 18 January a hydrothermal eruption was witnessed by a member of a Maori dance group who were gathering outside Lake Plaza hotel, on the shore of Sulphur Bay. They were about 1 km west (~0.5 mile) from site, which was at mouth of Puarenga Stream at its delta into Lake Rotorua. Area is a big expanse of boiling solfatara (~10 acres?) with a long history of such eruptions. The one on Tuesday 18 January sent up a vertical column of steam as a big mushroom cloud, that suddenly appeared and caught attention of people outside hotel. They thought it went about 30 m high and after a few minutes all died away. I visited site last week and there is a new crater ~15m diameter, boiling and overflowing 2-3 litres/sec. Blocks of ejecta <0.5m dia. thrown to <10m away and muddy debris to <25m radius of crater rim. I have photos of this and could e-mail them to anyone (~20 Kb jpegs?) if you e-mailed me at codya at wave.co.nz In Whakarewarewa Village, a ground collapse occurred in early January between the main hot spring Parekohoru and the Oil Baths. Area ~10 x 15m has sunken by up to 2m into boiling hot pools, waterlevels ~2m below surface. Area has a long historical record of ground subsidence and is where a colleague got badly scalded in early 1970s when ground collapsed under him. At present a tourist footbridge spans part of this collapse and is main access to hot baths. Bridge is closed now and myself and an engineer have the job of deciding if any sort of bridge can be built to access the baths (and can they afford to build it?). I am very apprehensive about any on site and in ground geotechnical investigations and may decide it is too much risk to even do that. Ashley Cody -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050222/f7d6b0c1/attachment.html> From r.keam at auckland.ac.nz Mon Feb 21 18:50:03 2005 From: r.keam at auckland.ac.nz (Ron Keam) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:50:03 +1300 Subject: [Geysers] Fw: Rotorua Blowout In-Reply-To: <005501c51859$1550cce0$e99d76cb@dd> References: <005501c51859$1550cce0$e99d76cb@dd> Message-ID: Ashley's report about the eruption is not at all surprising considering the history of this particular location. For those readers who have a copy of GOSA Transaction Volume VII a sketch of an 1894 blow-out there appears as an illustration on page 166 and a few details are given in the text on the same page. A rather simplistic study (commenced several years ago but uncompleted) indicated that such blowouts would be particularly likely on sediment flats through which geothermal fluids at boiling temperature were being discharged. (This is almost "obvious".) Certainly both on the flats at the mouth of the Puarenga Stream, and also on the old Frying Pan Flat (before 1917) such physical conditions prevailed, and hydrothermal eruptions are (were in the case of FPF) a characteristic feature. It is perhaps surprising that no historical events like this have occurred, however, on the present "Frying Pan" area at Waiotapu, and there are no obvious remnant features that would indicate such had occurred there in relatively recent times. Ron Keam > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ashley Cody >To: geysers at wwc.edu >Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:29 AM >Subject: Rotorua Blowout > >A brief note from Rotorua NZ. On Tuesday 18 January a hydrothermal >eruption was witnessed by a member of a Maori dance group who were >gathering outside Lake Plaza hotel, on the shore of Sulphur Bay. >They were about 1 km west (~0.5 mile) from site, which was at mouth >of Puarenga Stream at its delta into Lake Rotorua. Area is a big >expanse of boiling solfatara (~10 acres?) with a long history of >such eruptions. > >The one on Tuesday 18 January sent up a vertical column of steam as >a big mushroom cloud, that suddenly appeared and caught attention of >people outside hotel. They thought it went about 30 m high and after >a few minutes all died away. I visited site last week and there is a >new crater ~15m diameter, boiling and overflowing 2-3 litres/sec. >Blocks of ejecta <0.5m dia. thrown to <10m away and muddy debris to ><25m radius of crater rim. I have photos of this and could e-mail >them to anyone (~20 Kb jpegs?) if you e-mailed me at >codya at wave.co.nz > >In Whakarewarewa Village, a ground collapse occurred in early >January between the main hot spring Parekohoru and the Oil Baths. >Area ~10 x 15m has sunken by up to 2m into boiling hot pools, >waterlevels ~2m below surface. Area has a long historical record of >ground subsidence and is where a colleague got badly scalded in >early 1970s when ground collapsed under him. At present a tourist >footbridge spans part of this collapse and is main access to hot >baths. Bridge is closed now and myself and an engineer have the job >of deciding if any sort of bridge can be built to access the baths >(and can they afford to build it?). I am very apprehensive about any >on site and in ground geotechnical investigations and may decide it >is too much risk to even do that. > >Ashley Cody > >_______________________________________________ >Geysers mailing list >Geysers at wwc.edu >https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -- ##################### Ron Keam The Physics Department The University of Auckland Private Bag 92-019 Auckland New Zealand Phone +64 9 373-7599 extension 87931 FAX +64 9 373-7445 EMail r.keam at auckland.ac.nz ##################### From TSBryan at aol.com Tue Feb 22 13:13:22 2005 From: TSBryan at aol.com (TSBryan at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:13:22 EST Subject: [Geysers] Geysers in Peru Message-ID: <155.4ae24b0a.2f4cfa72@aol.com> I noted the other day some new info about geysers in Peru. I queried the two authors on the 2002 paper (which was about potentially establishing "Natural Monuments" at some of these places -- I have no further info on that). Today I received a reply (in Spanish) from Bilberto Zavala C. In the following, I shall use his terminology (translated). Candarave-Calientes, Tacna -- Three of the 44 springs are geysers. No frequency was stated, but the eruptions are just 1 to 2 feet high. Per a photo (which I did not post), one and probably all of these are the intermittently boiling, "bubble-shower" type of geyser. Quebrada Ancocollo, Tacna -- I've never heard of this place, a small cluster of 16 springs deep with the Quebrada (Gorge) Ancocollo, on Rio Ancocolla. Four of the springs are said to splash intermittently. No other info was given. Puente Bello, Moquegua -- (In my book, I have this as in the Departmento Puno, but evidently it is just over a pass into Moquegua.) There are three "principle springs" that are "without permanent boiling." Read that as you will. No other specific spring data was given. I posted a photo of the geyser in front of the cavern the other day. In my book from previous info, I had the deposits here as travertine (and that apparently is a limestone cavern), but Zavala states the deposit to be siliceous sinter. Calacoa (Carumas), Moquegua -- Confirmed as it is in my book, with unstated numbers of geysers at Sicolaque, Sayasayani and Putina. Three other thermal groups contain boiling springs (and spouters?) but no intermittent geysers. Ulucan, Moquegua -- I've had knowledge of this place before but could not confirm geysers due to water temperatures of only about 160F (which is fully 25F below local boiling). Sure enough -- five gas-powered perpetual spouters plus quiet intermittent "Los Meaderos," which evidently is a large pool. Given that Zavala notes the eruptions as "permanent" tells me that he does know what a true geyser is. Valle de Colca, Arequipa -- I was not aware of this locality prior to these current investigations. Deep within this canyon, on or near a tourist hiking track, is a single geyser. I found a reference to it in a travel book (Lonely Planet), which states that the once-impressive geyser is much weaker since an earthquake (in 1999?) "contained it." Zavala lists it as a "noisy" geyser that is visited by tourists. Zavala also stated that he is unaware of true geysers in any of Peru's other _500_ hot spring areas. In central Peru, Department of Ayacucho, is a place called Pachapupo, where there are some amazingly huge siliceous sinter "pyramids." A photo showing one is rather remarkable -- the structure is positively huge with what appears to be unweathered terraces. The text states that there are numerous hot springs around (but evidently not actually on)these structures. The foreground of the photo also shows what is unduoubedly orange cyanobacteria in areas of standing/running water and, barely in the bottom right corner of the photos, what appears to be the edge of a nice pool with a sinter border. But per Zavala, for all this, that place apparently has no geyser nor even a spouter. Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050222/a3c22902/attachment.html> From email.sheri at verizon.net Wed Feb 23 12:12:40 2005 From: email.sheri at verizon.net (sheri) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:12:40 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] make a geyser erupt during 'your time' Message-ID: <0cc001c519e4$07deffa0$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> Don't you just love National Geographic...?? Not as bad as the Metamucil... but still check this out... http://www.nationalgeographic.com/yellowstone/catch/qtvr.html Sheri Solomon eastern Washington state "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library" -Jorge Luis Borges -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050223/f4cadd60/attachment.html> From riozafiro at earthlink.net Thu Feb 24 05:13:39 2005 From: riozafiro at earthlink.net (Pat Snyder) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:13:39 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] make a geyser erupt during 'your time' In-Reply-To: <0cc001c519e4$07deffa0$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> References: <0cc001c519e4$07deffa0$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> Message-ID: <35f3d3fd7ffecca25c4213fc6fef46c7@earthlink.net> Sheri, is your concern that they shouldn't indicate to kids that they can "make it erupt"? Most children, I would hope, could distinguish between playing with an internet video and being in the park and actually watching it erupt for themselves. National Geo. might have had some kind of warning wording on the site, such as "In Yellowstone, you can't do this yourself," but that might be overkill, too. There's a pretty good explanation of OF's cycles on the previous page, given that kids read that, they should be able to understand that it's "just a video". Overall, I think that link is pretty cool, actually. I just had a little bit of trouble getting it to load (I am on dial up, unfortunately) and the technology is a bit dated, but being able to see the eruption in stages from varying views is interesting! Just my 2?. Pat S. On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:12 PM, sheri wrote: > Don't you just love National Geographic...?? > Not as bad as the Metamucil... > but still > check this out... > http://www.nationalgeographic.com/yellowstone/catch/qtvr.html > ? > Sheri Solomon > eastern Washington state > ? > "I have always imagined that paradise > will be a kind of library"? > -Jorge Luis Borges > _______________________________________________ > Geysers mailing list > Geysers at wwc.edu > https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2415 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050224/c9bb8f78/attachment.bin> From SCAFLOC at aol.com Thu Feb 24 16:54:12 2005 From: SCAFLOC at aol.com (SCAFLOC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:54:12 EST Subject: [Geysers] Gerlach Nevada Message-ID: <59.2211e733.2f4fd134@aol.com> Hi Scott, I seem to recall that the land there was up for sale a while ago although the geothermal rights were to be retained by the seller. No idea who bought it and have never been there. If anyone from the SF Bay Area wants to take a jaunt out there, gimme a holler ... I've always wanted to go! Cheers, Christina In a message dated 1/30/2005 7:03:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, TSBryan at aol.com writes: I'm quite sure this will generate no response, but what the heck -- I'll try. Doing a bit of Web surfing, I find that there is a "Granite Fox Power Plant Project" proposed for construction about 6 miles northwest of Gerlach, Nevada, at a site astride the state highway. Land ownership differes on each side of the road, so a special process has to be done to gain project approval. This process, and the decision, should be finished in early March 2005. Anotehr geothermal project is proposed for a few miles south of Gerlach, and still another at the Ward's Hot Springs, at Fly Ranch where there is the "geyser" (really a spouting well). I find it a bit curious that there is not proposed development _right at_ Great Boiling Springs, but perhaps this is because the springs are on land owned by the town of Gerlach? (The springs are within the Gerlach KGRA, but apparently is is ?not? under lease at present?) Anyhow -- has anybody by wild chance been there recently? Scott Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050224/e1c8905f/attachment.html> From email.sheri at verizon.net Thu Feb 24 17:31:58 2005 From: email.sheri at verizon.net (sheri) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:31:58 -0800 Subject: [Geysers] make a geyser erupt during 'your time' References: <0cc001c519e4$07deffa0$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> <35f3d3fd7ffecca25c4213fc6fef46c7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0fc301c51ad9$cc3bbe60$6401a8c0@your6vw4av77q6> laughing...... Pat -- I do think it is a good video.. but... "Playing God in Yellowstone" is not my idea of what should happen.. *I am smiling*.....I have no real concern.. it is just that.....doing it yourself....I guess makes the four, five hours waiting at Grand seem rather silly.. *sheri* sometimes wishing I could just 'mouse that geyser up' I just wanted to share that with you.... sorry if I came across as 'angry'....I guess it was just the 'computerness of the site'.. Sheri in Kennewick ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Snyder To: geyser observation reports Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 5:13 AM Subject: Re: [Geysers] make a geyser erupt during 'your time' Sheri, is your concern that they shouldn't indicate to kids that they can "make it erupt"? Most children, I would hope, could distinguish between playing with an internet video and being in the park and actually watching it erupt for themselves. National Geo. might have had some kind of warning wording on the site, such as "In Yellowstone, you can't do this yourself," but that might be overkill, too. There's a pretty good explanation of OF's cycles on the previous page, given that kids read that, they should be able to understand that it's "just a video". Overall, I think that link is pretty cool, actually. I just had a little bit of trouble getting it to load (I am on dial up, unfortunately) and the technology is a bit dated, but being able to see the eruption in stages from varying views is interesting! Just my 2?. Pat S. On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:12 PM, sheri wrote: Don't you just love National Geographic...?? Not as bad as the Metamucil... but still check this out... http://www.nationalgeographic.com/yellowstone/catch/qtvr.html Sheri Solomon eastern Washington state "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library" -Jorge Luis Borges _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050224/dd52958c/attachment.html> From THert at uwyo.edu Mon Feb 28 08:42:57 2005 From: THert at uwyo.edu (Tamsen Leigh Hert) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:42:57 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] BBC Supervolcano Message-ID: Greetings fellow Gazers! I went searching for the air date of BBC's program "Supervolcano" which was discussed earlier. It had aired on BBC Two which I do not get through Dish Network. I just heard back from BBC and it will air on the Discovery Channel in April. They do not have a set date as yet. Best, Tamsen Tamsen Emerson Hert, MLS, MA Wyoming Bibliographer Collection Development Office University of Wyoming Libraries Dept. 3334 1000 East University Avenue Laramie, WY 82071 phone: 307-766-6245 email: thert at uwyo.edu "If the Grand Canon of the Yellowstone is one of the crowning works of Nature, so is the Grand Canon Hotel, set out here many long miles from railway transportation, one of the crowning works of man. For here, where bear and elk and deer roam at will, where the face of Nature has not been changed by human hands, where the wild noises of the forest are heard at night, has been built one of the magnificent public houses of the world." --Gerrit Fort, 1912 The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone, p. 29 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050228/4d95a8b0/attachment.html> From jacross at lamar.colostate.edu Mon Feb 28 15:00:14 2005 From: jacross at lamar.colostate.edu (jacross) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:00:14 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] historic photographs Message-ID: <4250DDFC@webmail.colostate.edu> Here is a link to an interesting site I found recently: http://gallery.unl.edu The following is a historic photograph of Spike Geyser at Heart Lake. It is mislabeled as "Pearl Geyser" in the index and seems also to be mislabeled on the original plate. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7091.html Here is an old photograph of Union Geyser. Note the heavy beading on the central cone, the wet formation, and the stick jammed into the smallest cone. Damn vandals were at it already in the 1870's. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7105.html And two of Rustic Geyser. Note the appearance of the crater of "Composite Geyser" in the background of the second photograph; the crater looks partly empty. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7099.html http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7100.html I have had a bit of fun looking things up on this site. There are quite a few other geyser photographs, including one of Vent Geyser (?) mislabeled as Sawmill. The nice thing is that they have a lot of photographs here that don't usually make it into the standard Yellowstone history texts. Jeff Cross jacross at lamar.colostate.edu From triciamiller at beeb.net Mon Feb 28 15:07:04 2005 From: triciamiller at beeb.net (Tricia) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:07:04 -0000 Subject: [Geysers] BBC Supervolcano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200502282307.CAB08560@lon1-mail-2.visp.demon.net> Hello We do not usually comment because we are so far away that nothing we say is relevant! However we thought we should say something about the BBC2 programme. There was indeed a programme about "Supervolcanoes". But it was aired in February 2000 and is definitely not the same programme that they were filming in Yellowstone recently. The BBC were going to show a docudrama about the volcano in Yellowstone and there were due to be two accompanying programmes on BBC. But they have postponed the showing of these programmes following the Tsunami disaster on 26th December 2004. They did indicate that the programmes would be shown but did not give a date. I have obviously no idea what will be aired on the Discovery Channel in April but if there is only one programme being shown it may be the older one. Best wishes Tricia Miller _____ From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu [mailto:geysers-bounces at wwc.edu] On Behalf Of Tamsen Leigh Hert Sent: 28 February 2005 16:43 To: Geyser List Subject: [Geysers] BBC Supervolcano Greetings fellow Gazers! I went searching for the air date of BBC's program "Supervolcano" which was discussed earlier. It had aired on BBC Two which I do not get through Dish Network. I just heard back from BBC and it will air on the Discovery Channel in April. They do not have a set date as yet. Best, Tamsen Tamsen Emerson Hert, MLS, MA Wyoming Bibliographer Collection Development Office University of Wyoming Libraries Dept. 3334 1000 East University Avenue Laramie, WY 82071 phone: 307-766-6245 email: thert at uwyo.edu "If the Grand Canon of the Yellowstone is one of the crowning works of Nature, so is the Grand Canon Hotel, set out here many long miles from railway transportation, one of the crowning works of man. For here, where bear and elk and deer roam at will, where the face of Nature has not been changed by human hands, where the wild noises of the forest are heard at night, has been built one of the magnificent public houses of the world." --Gerrit Fort, 1912 The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone, p. 29 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <#/attachments/20050228/6a40df82/attachment.html> From crose61514 at wyoming.com Mon Feb 28 16:20:28 2005 From: crose61514 at wyoming.com (Cindy Rose) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:20:28 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] BBC Supervolcano References: Message-ID: <002801c51df4$79f6cb90$57dde3cc@VAIO> Hi Tamsen-- Could you let us know when you have spotted the airtime in the schedule? I don't have my satellite hooked up anymore, so I don't look at the schedule. If I kind of have an idea of when to start looking for it, I can invade my friends' house when it comes on! I'm in Casper, BTW. Thanks! Cindy Rose From mikeg at its.caltech.edu Mon Feb 28 18:33:12 2005 From: mikeg at its.caltech.edu (Michael Goldberg) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:33:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Geysers] historic photographs In-Reply-To: <4250DDFC@webmail.colostate.edu> References: <4250DDFC@webmail.colostate.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Jeff, for pointing us in the direction of the photographic archive. I thought this picture was especially priceless: http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/9872.html Caption reads "Castle Geyser and ? Geyser in action in the distance" Click on the photograph to get a better view of the mystery geyser... Michael Goldberg mikeg at caltech.edu From jacross at lamar.colostate.edu Mon Feb 28 19:28:22 2005 From: jacross at lamar.colostate.edu (jacross) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:28:22 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] more photographs Message-ID: <4252E083@webmail.colostate.edu> Here is an interesting photograph that seems to show a very different Excelsior Geyser from what we see now. Note the smooth uphill margin, the lack of any substantial runoff channels, and the comparatively small size (?) of the pool. Perhaps this is really Grand Prismatic? http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7021.html From MOOSEAE at uwec.edu Mon Feb 28 20:16:33 2005 From: MOOSEAE at uwec.edu (Moose, Allan E.) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:16:33 -0600 Subject: [Geysers] historic photographs Message-ID: Others might be interested to find, as I was, that this site has 1108 photographs by William Henry Jackson. There are many of his photographs from the Hayden expedition. Thanks for the link, Jeff. -----Original Message----- From: geysers-bounces at wwc.edu on behalf of jacross Sent: Mon 2/28/2005 5:00 PM To: geysers at wwc.edu Subject: [Geysers] historic photographs Here is a link to an interesting site I found recently: http://gallery.unl.edu The following is a historic photograph of Spike Geyser at Heart Lake. It is mislabeled as "Pearl Geyser" in the index and seems also to be mislabeled on the original plate. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7091.html Here is an old photograph of Union Geyser. Note the heavy beading on the central cone, the wet formation, and the stick jammed into the smallest cone. Damn vandals were at it already in the 1870's. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7105.html And two of Rustic Geyser. Note the appearance of the crater of "Composite Geyser" in the background of the second photograph; the crater looks partly empty. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7099.html http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/7100.html I have had a bit of fun looking things up on this site. There are quite a few other geyser photographs, including one of Vent Geyser (?) mislabeled as Sawmill. The nice thing is that they have a lot of photographs here that don't usually make it into the standard Yellowstone history texts. Jeff Cross jacross at lamar.colostate.edu _______________________________________________ Geysers mailing list Geysers at wwc.edu https://mailman.wwc.edu/mailman/listinfo/geysers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3123 bytes Desc: not available URL: <#/attachments/20050228/8c091f6d/attachment.bin> From crellison at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 20:21:35 2005 From: crellison at gmail.com (Chase Ellison) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:21:35 -0700 Subject: [Geysers] historic photographs In-Reply-To: <4250DDFC@webmail.colostate.edu> References: <4250DDFC@webmail.colostate.edu> Message-ID: looking at the liink that Jeff posted I searched around a bit.. I found this picture that I found rather intresting. http://gallery.unl.edu/picinfo/9875.html It posted as Morter ... Looking at it I think it may be correct however, it may be Riverside. I would not know since it is a view I have never seen of either geyser.